Zelda Tears of the Kingdom/BOTW Thread

[wankerness]

Maybe "ripped off" is too strong a phrasing, but BotW came out in the middle of open-world becoming "a thing", back when having an open world was a meaningful bullet point in a game's marketing. Since then, most open world games have taken at least some kind of inspiration from what BotW did - because it was considered to be "how to do open world right" at the time. It was the prime example of how to populate a map without just dropping icons everywhere a-la Ubisoft.

IMO BotW popularized the idea of "if you can see it, you can go explore it", and the combination of mechanics that made it work. The "we'll eventually let you climb anything at all, and give you an item to easily descend afterwards" thing, for example. Or the fast-travel but only after you've got there on your own. Or the scattering of really small environmental puzzles that aren't called out on a map. Or the design principle that if a place looks interesting, and the player goes there by choice, there should be a reward there. Elden Ring does some of this stuff. Horizon does some of this stuff. BotW didn't invent most of this stuff, but just served as a good example of how to implement them "the right way".

So what games took these ideas? I'm just trying to figure out what games specifically you think BOTW had heavy influence on.

Fast travel/map filling based on Towers that you have to climb first has been a thing since the early Far Cry or Assassin's Creed games, and the fast travel to points other than towers you've unlocked also is definitely in those games. AC: Origins is where they really went full action RPG open world instead of a collection of little sandboxy levels and that was post-BOTW, but it completely fits in with what came before (you could fully explore the cities in those games and Black Flag even had a huge overworld you had to sail around kinda like Wind Waker) and I think those games would have been identical even if BOTW didn't exist. And Horizon Zero Dawn is pretty much a "greatest hits" collection of mechanics from Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, the Tomb Raider reboot, and Uncharted.

The "climb anything, but you're limited by stamina upgrades unless you want to try and 'break' the game with tons of stamina food" mechanic I'd agree is pretty unique. It kinda reminds me of what Skyrim was like with the ability to hop your way up sheer cliffs if you had enough tenacity, but embraced the idea (instead of it being basically players abusing the game's geometry) and added the stamina limitation.

In conclusion I agree BOTW is unique and a great combo of open world ideas that were established and some unique mechanics of its own, I just question the idea that any games have really taken direct inspiration from it apart from the three I mentioned (Genshin/Pokemon/Fenyx Rising).

 

[StevenC]

EDIT: Something else I haven't commented on - this game really does run a LOT better than BOTW. There are still occasional framerate dips but nothing I've hit so far has been remotely close to as bad as simply going to Kakariko Village in BOTW. And there's a lot more going on graphically in some sections. Maybe it's mainly art design, but I really think the game looks good and runs quite well. Unless you're one of those "60 FPS OR UNPLAYABLE" nuts.

Strong agree. After 6+ years of Switch and not having to account for the Wii U, they've really been able to polish up the experience. My only complaints have been some places, like the Plateau, with quite jarring texture pop in. Though I've always found the frame drops with really big explosions quite endearing more than anything.

The art style was always good enough at covering up the lack of antialiasing and things, but also it's just a good enough game that I never actually look at that stuff.

Like when you see those Unreal Engine demos people make of Nintendo games running on top end PCs, but they're lacking the art that makes BotW/TotK or Odyssey really shine.

 

[TedEH]

I mean, I don't maintain a list of games that take mechanics from other games - but look at the way people talk about open-world design. Most of the time, you hear people talk about it being "Ubi style" open world vs "BotW style" open world. I gave two example that already came up. Death Stranding is one I'd put in that camp of "if you can see it, it's yours to explore and take on as you see fit" as an explicit mechanic. I've not played Genshin, but I've heard people describe it as pretty blatantly pulling mechanics right from BotW.

My point wasn't that they invented the mechanics or that every game lifts from it directly - the point was just that they're influential. People will talk about it. The things they did right will end up being reference material in design discussions.

 

[CTID]

In BotW I got so fed up with upgrading armour because it was exactly that style of crafting. It really didn't fit the on the fly nature of the game.

to piggyback on this as well, the other part of upgrading armor that (for me at least) sucked is that, because of how botw (and presumable totk) calculate damage, it's way too easy to completely break the combat and trivialize it. upgrading almost any armor set to max level makes Link completely indestructible and removes any challenge from the game

 

[StevenC]

For some perspective, Breath of the Wild is the best selling Zelda game with 29.81 million units, and it sold 3 million at launch.

 

[wankerness]

to piggyback on this as well, the other part of upgrading armor that (for me at least) sucked is that, because of how botw (and presumable totk) calculate damage, it's way too easy to completely break the combat and trivialize it. upgrading almost any armor set to max level makes Link completely indestructible and removes any challenge from the game

I don't know if it's going to be a problem in TOTK. I'm VERY regularly still getting one-shot by random blue/black enemies at 8 hearts and with armor double upgraded (8 armor in all slots). I think they either massively upped enemy damage or massively increased zone scaling (it happens constantly if I'm in certain regions like the desert but everything just tickles me in Hyrule Field or in the first temple, including the boss of the first temple).

Speaking of bosses, I was glad to find, in the Wind Temple, that

Spoiler

the boss was not just some dumb variant of Ganon that would likely be copy-pasted in the other temples. I think these are going to be very different bosses! That said, I did not like the mechanics of this fight very much. The aiming for how you have to hit him is wonky (a couple times I cracked the top layer and then clipped through his side instead of actually doing damage) and I had an early death or two due to the camera positioning getting as such that I couldn't see Link AT ALL and thus couldn't tell I didn't have the glider out. Very visually spectacular, though!

 

[CTID]

For some perspective, Breath of the Wild is the best selling Zelda game with 29.81 million units, and it sold 3 million at launch.

to be fair, it's a bit harder to compare it when botw also required a $300 purchase of the switch, since i doubt most people got it on Wii U

I don't know if it's going to be a problem in TOTK. I'm VERY regularly still getting one-shot by random blue/black enemies at 8 hearts and with armor double upgraded (8 armor in all slots). I think they either massively upped enemy damage or massively increased zone scaling (it happens constantly if I'm in certain regions like the desert but everything just tickles me in Hyrule Field or in the first temple, including the boss of the first temple).

Speaking of bosses, I was glad to find, in the Wind Temple, that

Spoiler

the boss was not just some dumb variant of Ganon that would likely be copy-pasted in the other temples. I think these are going to be very different bosses! That said, I did not like the mechanics of this fight very much. The aiming for how you have to hit him is wonky (a couple times I cracked the top layer and then clipped through his side instead of actually doing damage) and I had an early death or two due to the camera positioning getting as such that I couldn't see Link AT ALL and thus couldn't tell I didn't have the glider out. Very visually spectacular, though!

man, the dragon roost theme cutting through that boss theme made 8 year old me fuckin CRY though


also found where you can you get your own house in this one, and i really like the new system compared to Botw where you just buy a house and some upgrades. here you buy room modules and you can assemble your house however you want, with whatever 15 rooms you want

 

[StevenC]

to be fair, it's a bit harder to compare it when botw also required a $300 purchase of the switch, since i doubt most people got it on Wii U

man, the dragon roost theme cutting through that boss theme made 8 year old me fuckin CRY though


also found where you can you get your own house in this one, and i really like the new system compared to Botw where you just buy a house and some upgrades. here you buy room modules and you can assemble your house however you want, with whatever 15 rooms you want

Yeah sure, but 10 million units is like the biggest opening weekend for a Nintendo game in years, Pokémon excluded. It took 12 days for Animal Crossing to get 10 million. And this is Zelda which didn't even sell well on Wii.

Tarrey Town/Hudson was my favourite part of BotW so I'm excited for more of that.

 

[CTID]

Yeah sure, but 10 million units is like the biggest opening weekend for a Nintendo game in years, Pokémon excluded. It took 12 days for Animal Crossing to get 10 million. And this is Zelda which didn't even sell well on Wii.

Tarrey Town/Hudson was my favourite part of BotW so I'm excited for more of that.

absolutely, not my intent to diminish how big a deal 10 million sales is, just that the switch is in a much better spot than it was at release where basically the only game on it was BOTW, so a lot of people waited, myself included.

also yeah, my wife asked me if there was anywhere in the map i could live and my instant response was Akkala, i just love fall colors so much

 

[StevenC]

So I went to try and liberate Lurrelin with my 7 hearts and 9 points of armour. Unfortunately my shield burnt up and I got one hit killed trying to get the next out.

 

[CTID]

anyone else find the 5th rune yet?

Spoiler

having something that will save items you've built in the past & use schematics + lets you just pay zonaite if you don't have the specific parts on hand to create vehicles is pretty damn cool. seeing some of the vehicles in there is pretty inspiring for other stuff i'll end up trying out

 

[StevenC]

anyone else find the 5th rune yet?

Spoiler

having something that will save items you've built in the past & use schematics + lets you just pay zonaite if you don't have the specific parts on hand to create vehicles is pretty damn cool. seeing some of the vehicles in there is pretty inspiring for other stuff i'll end up trying out

Yuppers! It's excellent

 

[wankerness]

anyone else find the 5th rune yet?

Spoiler

having something that will save items you've built in the past & use schematics + lets you just pay zonaite if you don't have the specific parts on hand to create vehicles is pretty damn cool. seeing some of the vehicles in there is pretty inspiring for other stuff i'll end up trying out

Yeah, I got it this morning when doing a massive tour across that area trying to fill in as much of the map as possible. It's not easy to fill in that map, considering there's a TON of verticality down there and you frequently are unable to see the checkpoints unless you're really close to them.

Spoiler

I also had two boss fights with that Yiga leader guy that we last deposited down a hole in BOTW. And a fight with a big construct where it kept turning into different shapes and trying to crush/smash me with various forms. Amusing stuff. I also ran away from a couple giant hell frogs, I didn't want to see how tough they were. I really like the depths, it reminds me of my first trip into Blackreach in Skyrim, I loved that huge creepy area so much. Except when I get swarmed by the hands that either unavoidably kill you or spawn a pretty tough boss if you kill them.

My number one failure as a player in this game right now is I still have not figured out how to make weapons that aren't godawful. I occasionally get some weird merged ones from areas that do 20+ damage but everything I make seems to be down in 7-12 damage land and it just tickles some of the enemies I'm supposed to fight (ex to cleanse the forbidden woods or one of the Xs on the map for Misko's armor where a big mean rock guy resides). I might just look up a basic cheatsheet overview to see what kinds of items people are using most of the time.

I still have ONE tower that I haven't figured out how to unlock. I might give up soon just cause it's a pain to get up to it every time.

Spoiler

It's the one buried in snow with no apparent way to melt it and no cave underneath it that I could find, as well as no ability to enter at the top (I got up there no problem since there's one of those falling sky blocks next to it).

Another thing that was VERY welcome today was that the Hero's Path ability is still in the game, it was just locked behind that dude going to his tech lab in Hateno. And he gives you the fast travel thing and the upgraded sheikah sensor, like, right away! Unless somehow you managed to beat the first temple AND do a ton of stuff underground without finding a few shrines/taking a few pictures of monsters.

 

[TedEH]

Dang, I'm falling behind. I've got all of two towers unlocked, and not much progress on anything else.

 

[StevenC]

Yeah, I got it this morning when doing a massive tour across that area trying to fill in as much of the map as possible. It's not easy to fill in that map, considering there's a TON of verticality down there and you frequently are unable to see the checkpoints unless you're really close to them.

Spoiler

I also had two boss fights with that Yiga leader guy that we last deposited down a hole in BOTW. And a fight with a big construct where it kept turning into different shapes and trying to crush/smash me with various forms. Amusing stuff. I also ran away from a couple giant hell frogs, I didn't want to see how tough they were. I really like the depths, it reminds me of my first trip into Blackreach in Skyrim, I loved that huge creepy area so much. Except when I get swarmed by the hands that either unavoidably kill you or spawn a pretty tough boss if you kill them.

My number one failure as a player in this game right now is I still have not figured out how to make weapons that aren't godawful. I occasionally get some weird merged ones from areas that do 20+ damage but everything I make seems to be down in 7-12 damage land and it just tickles some of the enemies I'm supposed to fight (ex to cleanse the forbidden woods or one of the Xs on the map for Misko's armor where a big mean rock guy resides). I might just look up a basic cheatsheet overview to see what kinds of items people are using most of the time.

I still have ONE tower that I haven't figured out how to unlock. I might give up soon just cause it's a pain to get up to it every time.

Spoiler

It's the one buried in snow with no apparent way to melt it and no cave underneath it that I could find, as well as no ability to enter at the top (I got up there no problem since there's one of those falling sky blocks next to it).

Another thing that was VERY welcome today was that the Hero's Path ability is still in the game, it was just locked behind that dude going to his tech lab in Hateno. And he gives you the fast travel thing and the upgraded sheikah sensor, like, right away! Unless somehow you managed to beat the first temple AND do a ton of stuff underground without finding a few shrines/taking a few pictures of monsters.

Those fucking

Spoiler

FROX WANKERS

I got so close to killing one and now I'm just sick and avoiding them.

I'm with Ted on this, I've only got maybe 5 towers. Headed south a bit and east a bit first from the castle, then got a couple stables on my way up to Rito Village. Then headed down towards Hateno. Probably going to checkout Kakariko next because I don't think I have the equipment or money (or patience to cook all that) to head up the big mountain to the tower beside Hateno.

The weapons are tricky to figure out. It's neat that different gems have effects, but beyond that and putting stronger Bokoblin horns on them, I dont really know what's going on. And the boko horned swords seem to be really fragile.

Spoiler

Maybe obvious and you know this, but for things like Frox and Talus you need to use a hammer weapon to really damage them. Swords and spears don't do much of anything against them.

 

[CTID]

i'm missing 2 towers - the desert and the gerudo highlands right above it. i've also illuminated like 25 roots underground as well, which is a hell of a process. i basically just switch gears to a different tier of the world whenever i find myself getting tired of whatever i'm currently doing. accidentally found the way to the final boss fight as well. i did the run all the way up to the room you start the game in before teleporting out, but that's going to be a hell of a run to do at the end of the game.

as far as weapon fusing goes, i generally just sort my items by fuse damage and grab whatever looks cool, i think most of my weapons do between 17-24 damage, but i've balled out a couple times and made a weapon with a royal guard claymore as the base that did something like 80 damage, and then increased to ~120 damage when it was about to break

edit: just got back on and while i have some weapons in that 17-24 range it seems like generally it's between 12-17

 

[StevenC]

i'm missing 2 towers - the desert and the gerudo highlands right above it. i've also illuminated like 25 roots underground as well, which is a hell of a process. i basically just switch gears to a different tier of the world whenever i find myself getting tired of whatever i'm currently doing. accidentally found the way to the final boss fight as well. i did the run all the way up to the room you start the game in before teleporting out, but that's going to be a hell of a run to do at the end of the game.

as far as weapon fusing goes, i generally just sort my items by fuse damage and grab whatever looks cool, i think most of my weapons do between 17-24 damage, but i've balled out a couple times and made a weapon with a royal guard claymore as the base that did something like 80 damage, and then increased to ~120 damage when it was about to break

edit: just got back on and while i have some weapons in that 17-24 range it seems like generally it's between 12-17

So are there undecayed weapons to find, or do I have to throw them at octoroks again?

 

[CTID]

So are there undecayed weapons to find, or do I have to throw them at octoroks again?

i feel like i've found a few throughout the areas, the royal guard stuff i all found up in hyrule castle and i think that the ghostly silhouettes of hyrule soldiers you can see in the depths might be holding untouched weapons? i only checked once or twice though and it's been a while

 

[wankerness]

So are there undecayed weapons to find, or do I have to throw them at octoroks again?

I dunno. Yesterday I got a Royal Bow that looked identical to the ones from BOTW from some random chest somewhere. SO maybe it's like BOTW where the more monsters you kill the more weapons in the world start scaling and eventually everything you get will be variations on the Royal things again. It didn't look decayed, but then again Bows never do, so maybe the Royal melee weapons still will look rusted out.

The depths root unlocking can be really bad. I frequently find myself totally unable to find them in a huge expanse of blackness cause there's hundreds of yards vertically they can be as well as anywhere in the x,y axis, and that's a VERY vertical area so things will often be completely invisible behind mountains/trees/floor geometry. I think I probably have about 2/3 of it mapped. I frickin HATE the third boss fight down there (the one on boats), it's just SO tedious, doing the same thing over and over again, being unable to attack while driving, and the guy has 11 million health and constantly teleports away when you get to him and then your battery drains and ahhhhh. I am now trying to find him for the fourth and final showdown, but can't find the entry into the depths that I need to find to get past a wall. I think I might go back to surface stuff for a while!

 

[wankerness]

i feel like i've found a few throughout the areas, the royal guard stuff i all found up in hyrule castle and i think that the ghostly silhouettes of hyrule soldiers you can see in the depths might be holding untouched weapons? i only checked once or twice though and it's been a while

Nah I've checked probably about 20 of them and they all just had the same crappy rusted Knight's Swords and whatever as you find above. Probably some of them have royal weapons especially depending how far in the game you've progressed.