Wintersun's Groundhog's Day Thread

jruivo26

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I dunno how else to tell you this, but delays usually mean a drop in quality, not the other way around. In almost any industry, when a product takes significantly more than a reasonable amount of time to produce, that's typically a sign the project has been mismanaged or just failed entirely in it's goals.

I still remember the yearning and insane antecipation for Tool's new album only for them to *finally* present an amalgam of old ideas and boring jams that were kept in a hard drive for years and turned into songs with lyrics (let's not forget the useless interludes). Of course the AOTY accolades rained down on it, and I guess the same thing would happen with Jari's stash of recluse material.

That being said, The Way of the Fire has been played live since 2011 and I really like it. I don't know why they picked that one for live playing so long ago, but if it's finished, everyone knows it and the backing tracks of synths, orchestra and vocals are already there, why didn't they release it as a single? And then repeat the process for the other songs
 

mehegama

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That being said, The Way of the Fire has been played live since 2011 and I really like it. I don't know why they picked that one for live playing so long ago, but if it's finished, everyone knows it and the backing tracks of synths, orchestra and vocals are already there, why didn't they release it as a single?
I personally find the song pretty meh but in any case I think we all know at this point that the music has been written and recorded ages ago. The RAM/CPU excuses do not hold these times, you can rent farms that can run simulations of the universe NASA style these days. Even Jari's insult to sound engineering endeavours, can easily be handled.
I think @Flappydoodle summarized it pretty well. The guy is a mess and we ll only see new music if he runs out of money from patreon.
 

jruivo26

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The guy is a mess and we ll only see new music if he runs out of money from patreon.

The thing is, he has around 172 patreon subscribers (something around that number) * paying 10 eur/month = 1720 euros a month.

You still have to deduct any kind of tax enforced by the platform (if any, I never had a patreon).

Then, divide by each member of the band (does this happen though? I find it hard to believe that Jari forces the other guys to create content like podcasts and cooking lessons and then keeps all of the patreon money).

My question now is: is this enough to live in Finland? I seriously doubt it
 

j3ps3

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The thing is, he has around 172 patreon subscribers (something around that number) * paying 10 eur/month = 1720 euros a month.

You still have to deduct any kind of tax enforced by the platform (if any, I never had a patreon).

Then, divide by each member of the band (does this happen though? I find it hard to believe that Jari forces the other guys to create content like podcasts and cooking lessons and then keeps all of the patreon money).

My question now is: is this enough to live in Finland? I seriously doubt it
It is.
 

Lorcan Ward

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Then, divide by each member of the band (does this happen though? I find it hard to believe that Jari forces the other guys to create content like podcasts and cooking lessons and then keeps all of the patreon money).

Since Wintersun is Jari Maenpaa's project all the other members would be session players paid for shows, videos, photo shoots etc. I don't know whats on the Patreon but judging from Youtube it is content that is filmed in big batches and then slowly released.

Jukka + Kai play in Nightwish, Asim left the band and Teemu is a guitar teacher who has his own project Smackbound. According to setlist,fm Wintersun last played 2 gigs in 2020 and 10 in 2019. It's safe to say the 3 remaining members don't rely on Wintersun and have probably made very little from it the last 3+ years.

It wouldn't surprise me if Wintersun doesn't tour again, if they do probably under a different lineup and another album is about as likely as the next King Killer Chronicles book. Funny enough both Jari and Rothfuss convinced fans to give them hundreds of thousands and never went through with their plan for the money.
 

Sermo Lupi

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Since Wintersun is Jari Maenpaa's project all the other members would be session players paid for shows, videos, photo shoots etc. I don't know whats on the Patreon but judging from Youtube it is content that is filmed in big batches and then slowly released.

Jukka + Kai play in Nightwish, Asim left the band and Teemu is a guitar teacher who has his own project Smackbound. According to setlist,fm Wintersun last played 2 gigs in 2020 and 10 in 2019. It's safe to say the 3 remaining members don't rely on Wintersun and have probably made very little from it the last 3+ years.

It wouldn't surprise me if Wintersun doesn't tour again, if they do probably under a different lineup and another album is about as likely as the next King Killer Chronicles book. Funny enough both Jari and Rothfuss convinced fans to give them hundreds of thousands and never went through with their plan for the money.

Hate to say it, but up until a couple years ago it would've served most of those guys to continue being in Wintersun for the exposure.

Kai became Nightwish's permanent drummer in 2019. Jukka and Heikki (Wintersun's touring drummer) had been involved in Norther but that ended in 2012; Jukka wasn't a full member of Nightwish until 2022 and Heikki was hired by Finntroll in 2014 but didn't appear on an album until 2020. Teemu still is not in any notable projects aside from Wintersun, incredible as he is. Asim is similar.

In that sense, the Wintersun affiliation might've helped them with credibility/visibility, be that for teaching, session work, or trying to get placements in other bands. Now that Kai, Jukka and Heikki have moved onto more notable and permanent projects, you have to wonder if they'd return even for session work unless it was rigorously scheduled. Wikipedia's list of 'current Wintersun members' is probably wishful thinking for now.

Your last paragraph nails it, I think. If the material is mostly written, there's still a slim chance Time II comes out. However, even an assumption as generous as that relies on meticulous management of the rest of the project with so many band members having moved on. Given that studio projects are rarely worth the investment anymore without the prospect of touring, the odds are stacked against Wintersun hopefuls.
 

MFB

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Hate to say it, but up until a couple years ago it would've served most of those guys to continue being in Wintersun for the exposure.

Kai became Nightwish's permanent drummer in 2019. Jukka and Heikki (Wintersun's touring drummer) had been involved in Norther but that ended in 2012; Jukka wasn't a full member of Nightwish until 2022 and Heikki was hired by Finntroll in 2014 but didn't appear on an album until 2020. Teemu still is not in any notable projects aside from Wintersun, incredible as he is. Asim is similar.

In that sense, the Wintersun affiliation might've helped them with credibility/visibility, be that for teaching, session work, or trying to get placements in other bands. Now that Kai, Jukka and Heikki have moved onto more notable and permanent projects, you have to wonder if they'd return even for session work unless it was rigorously scheduled. Wikipedia's list of 'current Wintersun members' is probably wishful thinking for now.

Your last paragraph nails it, I think. If the material is mostly written, there's still a slim chance Time II comes out. However, even an assumption as generous as that relies on meticulous management of the rest of the project with so many band members having moved on. Given that studio projects are rarely worth the investment anymore without the prospect of touring, the odds are stacked against Wintersun hopefuls.

Uh, aside from this forum, I haven't seen anyone repping any Wintersun gear or mentioning them in social media posts; if anything them being in Nightwish/Finntroll, etc will probably have the inverse effect and bring exposure back TO Wintersun.
 

Sermo Lupi

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Uh, aside from this forum, I haven't seen anyone repping any Wintersun gear or mentioning them in social media posts; if anything them being in Nightwish/Finntroll, etc will probably have the inverse effect and bring exposure back TO Wintersun.

I've known plenty of Wintersun fans outside of these forums over the years and I wouldn't count myself as a fan for the record. They're one of the more notable bands in the power metal scene, which, yes, is admittedly rather small.

The point is, before those Wintersun members joined larger bands, being in a semi-defunct Wintersun provided some visibility at least. Them getting that exposure elsewhere now is irrelevant to the point I was making.
 

thebeesknees22

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I'm going to take this to DM's and life coach you son.
thanks @Seabeast2000!
fcc750e97a944822ffb0acc6b4dfdd7d.gif

You really care. Teach me the ways master sifu sir! :lol:
 

Xiphos68

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While I can't say that I'm thrilled with the ways things have gone on Wintersun.

It's bewildering to me that Teemu, Kai or Jukka have never ever said anything.
None of them have.

It just makes me wonder if there is more to it and Jari just isn't sharing it?

Maybe those guys just avoid conflict... But I also can't see them involved on any level of a band that they didn't believe in unless they are just really good friends.
 

Velokki

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While I can't say that I'm thrilled with the ways things have gone on Wintersun.

It's bewildering to me that Teemu, Kai or Jukka have never ever said anything.
None of them have.

It just makes me wonder if there is more to it and Jari just isn't sharing it?

Maybe those guys just avoid conflict... But I also can't see them involved on any level of a band that they didn't believe in unless they are just really good friends.

Kai is a really good guy. Like a really solid, friendly dude. His way of letting Jari know he's full of shit, is doing work at other bands and getting a proper job @ Nightwish. Also, did you know Forest Seasons drums were not Kai's, they were just micromanaged by Jari in a VST? I think that's also a sign for the drummer that the band leader really doesn't think you matter. If I was a drummer of Kai's stature, and my drum parts were done NOT BY ME... on a VST... I would just leave, waving the middle finger.

Teemu is a great, great guy. Vehemently against any kind of conflict - or at least for me, he's been very friendly and peaceful every time I've taken a lesson from him. Once when we met live, I asked him how Jari was as a person, and he just smiled and basically told in the friendliest way possible that he's intense and stubborn.

So yeah, there you have it. I don't know about Jukka, but Teemu and Kai are super nice guys who would never cause a conflict. And against Jari, you cannot win or get anything through. Asim always struck me as someone who demands respect and to be heard, as if the band was a democracy. And well... you saw how that turned out :lol:
 

fantom

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Uh, aside from this forum, I haven't seen anyone repping any Wintersun gear or mentioning them in social media posts; if anything them being in Nightwish/Finntroll, etc will probably have the inverse effect and bring exposure back TO Wintersun.
Nightwish, sure. But Wintersun has been getting a lot more attention than Finntroll... Both inside and outside of the metalhead communities. Just look at YouTube reaction video view counts.
 

Sermo Lupi

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haha, Finland?

hmmmm.....
View attachment 115006

"wet all year"

.....wet....all...year...
-_-
-___-
-______-

I think I'm gonna have to pass on that one. I had enough of that when I lived in Vancouver, BC haha

Let the search for my new home continue! haha

British Columbia is one of the wettest places on earth. Vancouver gets 1200mm-2500mm of annual precipitation depending on area. Finland gets 450mm-750mm, only half of which falls as snow. In other words, if you lived in a particularly wet region of Vancouver (e.g. Grouse Mountain) and then a particularly dry part of Finland and didn't count snowfall as 'wetness', the difference in precipitation between the two places is literally an order of magnitude (a factor of 10x).

Virtually anywhere in Europe will have a nicer climate than most of Canada. The gulf stream is a wonderful thing. When you hear stereotypes about European weather like London being overcast or Scandinavia being cold, it's usually relative to other European places like Spain or Italy. As someone who's lived a long time in Canada and in Europe, I can assure you that we are not considered in these stereotypes and that the reputation of our climate is mainly that of an unlivable hellscape. The Scandinavians commiserate with us but that's about it.

I can't tell you how many Canadian relatives I have who talk shit about the UK's climate when they live in a place that gets 2-3x as much rainfall. My working theory is that people watch too much TV and movies.
 

thebeesknees22

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British Columbia is one of the wettest places on earth. Vancouver gets 1200mm-2500mm of annual precipitation depending on area. Finland gets 450mm-750mm, only half of which falls as snow. In other words, if you lived in a particularly wet region of Vancouver (e.g. Grouse Mountain) and then a particularly dry part of Finland and didn't count snowfall as 'wetness', the difference in precipitation between the two places is literally an order of magnitude (a factor of 10x).

Virtually anywhere in Europe will have a nicer climate than most of Canada. The gulf stream is a wonderful thing. When you hear stereotypes about European weather like London being overcast or Scandinavia being cold, it's usually relative to other European places like Spain or Italy. As someone who's lived a long time in Canada and in Europe, I can assure you that we are not considered in these stereotypes and that the reputation of our climate is mainly that of an unlivable hellscape. The Scandinavians commiserate with us but that's about it.

I can't tell you how many Canadian relatives I have who talk shit about the UK's climate when they live in a place that gets 2-3x as much rainfall. My working theory is that people watch too much TV and movies.
oh cool! good to know.
I was just going by what google was telling me.

Make way then. Time for the North American invasion of Europe! haha
 


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