Vai, Petrucci talk about financial issues of touring.

[bostjan]

I mean, up until the 20th century 99.9% of people that could play an instrument never did so outside of their house, or if they did it was small social gatherings where other people who also played an instrument happened to be, and just about anyone who wasn't dirt poor played some sort of instrument. The idea of each instrumentalist being a unique artist is relatively modern and the "rockstar dream" is even more modern. I'd say that lack of ability to turn it into something that generates profit will create MORE people doing it for art, not less.

Sorry, but I don't understand.

I had tons of ancestors who were professional musicians going back to the 17th century. You could play in church or play in the town band or play chamber music for rich people or play at the theater or opera for not-as-rich people, or play piano in a saloon or whatever. I doubt it was ever an easy living, but it existed and lots of people managed. The record industry started in the latter half of the 19th century and that's when acts started going from local to national and touring became a thing. You could still say that 99.9% of people who "play" an instrument don't make money doing it - that hasn't really changed. For sure the instruments changed though, from folk instruments to organs in the 19th century to flutes and violins around the turn into the 20th century to banjos and mandolins during vaudeville to accordion in the 40's and 50's to piano in the 60's and guitars in the 70's and 80's and now, IDK, some app on a phone or something...

So, are you saying that this whole idea of nationally touring acts is new, or are you saying that this idea of being a pro musician is new? The former is pretty much right on, but the latter is way off.

If you're talking just about national tours to make money, it still leaves musicians in a tough spot during this transition of the economy, since there aren't really that many local venues, and the ones that still exist are pretty antagonistic to artists making any money there. You obviously could try to play at the opera or whatever, but no one really goes to those since, IDK, 100 years ago... So musicians are still facing unprecedented economic troubles. Maybe none of this disagrees with what you were getting at, but it seems like it does, IDK.

Reading all these comments I see the following as immediate possibilities (not sure what to do about ~ 5 years down the line):

- Go back to the Mecenas/Patron model that was used by in-demand musicians until the 19th century;
- ... or, just play local shows;
- ... or, wait a couple of years for enough "random acts" to desist from their dreams until a sustainable number of competent bands remain/survive, and the costs of touring comes down accordingly.

Regarding local shows:

I've definitely played over 1000 of them - been doing them since I was about 13 or 14. A band used to get $400-600 back then without even haggling with the venue. Nowadays, most shows in my general region pay $200-300, so half, and that's not even accounting for the fact that that ~$500 in 1994 would be worth >$1000 today, due to inflation. There also used to be 10-12 bars or clubs in each little town/suburb/borough doing live music, where now there are 0-2. And I never heard of smaller clubs or bars making a band agree to an exclusion contract where you can't play in an x mile radius for y days before or after your show - until around 2013 or so, but now I see it maybe 10-20% of the time. It all makes local shows a lot tougher.

And I don't fully blame the venues for this, either. they're doing this stuff because the industry is sucking it's own soul out right now. Audiences are less keen to care about live music, and, even when they see a band they love, they are far more likely now to track and follow the band on video sharing sites and on social media than they are to come out and see your next show.

Regarding: wait a couple of years:

That's a crazy comment. If you were in a band, how do you take this advice? Just go into cryogenic deep freeze for 5 years? Crawl into a hole and eat worms? What? Say you are 26 and at your peak to a kickass music career, doing okay as far as musicians go. You decide that the next 5 years will suck to be a musician, so you get a job loading/or/unloading boxes on a truck for 5 years. Now FF to when you are 31 and things start to turn around (as you predict), and you are too old for anyone to see you as a fresh face, especially compared to the other 26 year olds competing with you, and now you have 5 years of untreated health problems, since you are in the USA and health care here is inaccessible, including back problems from all of those boxes... Now what?

I don't know what the solution is. In fact, I don't think there is one for you or me. In my case, it doesn't really affect me that much. I took my shot at the music industry decades ago, but it used to be my primary source of income and now it's a hobby that I sink tons of money into. Have I gotten that much worse at it? I honestly don't think so. If I suck now, I definitely sucked before, but I was way more successful at it then than now.

Here in VT, we even have some publicly-funded arts organizations that pay musicians to play on the streets in the summer and stuff. It's pretty cool, but this stuff seems to be in a much more precarious financial state now than it was before. Probably the most stable it was was last spring, when covid was declared over, but by mid-summer, they were already showing signs of deterioration again.

 

[Demiurge]

Are people not just playing because they get a kick out of it and like music?

Personally, I feel like I got better at music the less 'serious' I got about it. Once I got old and the pressure was off to make some sort of grand statement with music (oh, the pretentiousness of my 20s & 30s), things just started to come together. I could play what was in my head. I could complete a song. I could sing! Songwriting became a form of therapy and while the songs could be shared in the future, it's not a priority. That said, if someone else wants to make it their job, more power to them.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Sorry, but I don't understand.

I had tons of ancestors who were professional musicians going back to the 17th century. You could play in church or play in the town band or play chamber music for rich people or play at the theater or opera for not-as-rich people, or play piano in a saloon or whatever. I doubt it was ever an easy living, but it existed and lots of people managed. The record industry started in the latter half of the 19th century and that's when acts started going from local to national and touring became a thing. You could still say that 99.9% of people who "play" an instrument don't make money doing it - that hasn't really changed. For sure the instruments changed though, from folk instruments to organs in the 19th century to flutes and violins around the turn into the 20th century to banjos and mandolins during vaudeville to accordion in the 40's and 50's to piano in the 60's and guitars in the 70's and 80's and now, IDK, some app on a phone or something...

So, are you saying that this whole idea of nationally touring acts is new, or are you saying that this idea of being a pro musician is new? The former is pretty much right on, but the latter is way off.

If you're talking just about national tours to make money, it still leaves musicians in a tough spot during this transition of the economy, since there aren't really that many local venues, and the ones that still exist are pretty antagonistic to artists making any money there. You obviously could try to play at the opera or whatever, but no one really goes to those since, IDK, 100 years ago... So musicians are still facing unprecedented economic troubles. Maybe none of this disagrees with what you were getting at, but it seems like it does, IDK.



Regarding local shows:

I've definitely played over 1000 of them - been doing them since I was about 13 or 14. A band used to get $400-600 back then without even haggling with the venue. Nowadays, most shows in my general region pay $200-300, so half, and that's not even accounting for the fact that that ~$500 in 1994 would be worth >$1000 today, due to inflation. There also used to be 10-12 bars or clubs in each little town/suburb/borough doing live music, where now there are 0-2. And I never heard of smaller clubs or bars making a band agree to an exclusion contract where you can't play in an x mile radius for y days before or after your show - until around 2013 or so, but now I see it maybe 10-20% of the time. It all makes local shows a lot tougher.

And I don't fully blame the venues for this, either. they're doing this stuff because the industry is sucking it's own soul out right now. Audiences are less keen to care about live music, and, even when they see a band they love, they are far more likely now to track and follow the band on video sharing sites and on social media than they are to come out and see your next show.

Regarding: wait a couple of years:

That's a crazy comment. If you were in a band, how do you take this advice? Just go into cryogenic deep freeze for 5 years? Crawl into a hole and eat worms? What? Say you are 26 and at your peak to a kickass music career, doing okay as far as musicians go. You decide that the next 5 years will suck to be a musician, so you get a job loading/or/unloading boxes on a truck for 5 years. Now FF to when you are 31 and things start to turn around (as you predict), and you are too old for anyone to see you as a fresh face, especially compared to the other 26 year olds competing with you, and now you have 5 years of untreated health problems, since you are in the USA and health care here is inaccessible, including back problems from all of those boxes... Now what?

I don't know what the solution is. In fact, I don't think there is one for you or me. In my case, it doesn't really affect me that much. I took my shot at the music industry decades ago, but it used to be my primary source of income and now it's a hobby that I sink tons of money into. Have I gotten that much worse at it? I honestly don't think so. If I suck now, I definitely sucked before, but I was way more successful at it then than now.

Here in VT, we even have some publicly-funded arts organizations that pay musicians to play on the streets in the summer and stuff. It's pretty cool, but this stuff seems to be in a much more precarious financial state now than it was before. Probably the most stable it was was last spring, when covid was declared over, but by mid-summer, they were already showing signs of deterioration again.

So the record industry started in the mid-1800's (19th Century is 1800-1900)? My point was that being able to play an instrument at a relative level of proficiency was not uncommon a long time ago, and most people weren't trying to be "artists", even professional musicians for the most part weren't "artists" and nobody knew who they were. Much like most professional musicians today, actually. There's this weird thing where a lot of people who play rock/pop music think they're supposed to be able to make money from it, and people who were making money and are now having a harder time is somehow changing the landscape for THEM, even though the chances of them making money with "art" is slim-to-none whether it's 2023 or 1980. There's just been this grandiose vision of the rockstar implanted in people's brains, and it seems like its harder for people to grow out of compared to the idea that you can become a pro athlete. The truth has been that if you want to guarantee a career in music you become proficient at your instrument and you play whatever music is offering you money whether you think it's "art" or not.

Man, I wish I knew where local bands were ever making $500/night regularly. I've been playing live since about 2002 and unless we were also the promoter and ticket holders, $500 might be the take for all four-five bands on a bill at the local level

 

[wheresthefbomb]

I've made $1,000+ a handful of times taking $5 cover at dive bars, but that was the exception rather than the rule, and it was always being split between at least two bands, minus 10% split between door person and bartender. I think it would be hard to pull that now. I've noticed places around here going to much higher cover/ticket costs though, between $10-$25. I'm not sure what that split looks like. Historically things have been a little better here in terms of how much of the cover you're getting than the horror stories I've heard from the states. I guess I'll have to book one and find out.

I only make money when I play solo shows. I still love playing with other people but I don't expect to make money doing it.

 

[Lozek]

Are people not just playing because they get a kick out of it and like music? When I started at 13 or 14 I never intended to get famous or be rich with the hobby, I just saw bands I liked playing music and thought "I want to be able to play that song". There is no end goal in mind here except to improve and enjoy it more, which I have with each passing year. I've never been disappointed that I'm not getting endorsements thrown at me left and right and that I'm not out on tour, I just like to unwind with the instrument at the end of the day and make cool sounds.

IMO even if you're rich and famous and doing it as a career, if you don't just enjoy the thing you're doing, you're gonna be sad.

Everyone starts out that way, but the feeling of performance is highly addictive, and achieving success with it even more so.

In any career (From Musician to Coder to Nuclear Scientist) you have to actively drive advancement in your career both in seniority/experience as well as financial compensation. If you don't, then you will stagnate personally and impact your ability to build a better life for yourself. I don't think many musicians view it as 'just a job', but if you're doing it professionally then you do also have to approach it as a career.

 

[OmegaSlayer]

I mean, up until the 20th century 99.9% of people that could play an instrument never did so outside of their house, or if they did it was small social gatherings where other people who also played an instrument happened to be, and just about anyone who wasn't dirt poor played some sort of instrument. The idea of each instrumentalist being a unique artist is relatively modern and the "rockstar dream" is even more modern. I'd say that lack of ability to turn it into something that generates profit will create MORE people doing it for art, not less.

There's this thin line between being a "total uncompromising artist" and "making a profit out of art" that with today "infrastructure" means that "total uncompromising artist" are probably bedroom warriors/artists whose music no one will ever listen to.

I thoroughly agree with the most of your post, but it's oversemplified imho.
There are many more layers that are out of the musician's control

I've read things here in the thread that are true, facts, it's what happens, but if you slow down and think about it, those are totally idiot concepts.
"Make music, so that you grow a fan base that will buy your shirts"

 

[HoneyNut]

Regarding: wait a couple of years:

That's a crazy comment. If you were in a band, how do you take this advice? Just go into cryogenic deep freeze for 5 years? Crawl into a hole and eat worms? What? Say you are 26 and at your peak to a kickass music career, doing okay as far as musicians go. You decide that the next 5 years will suck to be a musician, so you get a job loading/or/unloading boxes on a truck for 5 years. Now FF to when you are 31 and things start to turn around (as you predict), and you are too old for anyone to see you as a fresh face, especially compared to the other 26 year olds competing with you, and now you have 5 years of untreated health problems, since you are in the USA and health care here is inaccessible, including back problems from all of those boxes... Now what?

I don't know what the solution is. In fact, I don't think there is one for you or me. In my case, it doesn't really affect me that much. I took my shot at the music industry decades ago, but it used to be my primary source of income and now it's a hobby that I sink tons of money into. Have I gotten that much worse at it? I honestly don't think so. If I suck now, I definitely sucked before, but I was way more successful at it then than now.

First of all, great post. "Rep points" to you.

In regards to the musician lockdown for 5 years is not meant for the 26 year old to wait it out. Its meant to weed him and others in a similar boat out.

We've been in this situation in our careers outisde of music. Let's say boomers who were programmers trying to compete against younger graduates. Or people who were hoping to become pilots, or even doctors. There's a small window where you have to make it across by a certain age, otherwise its just not in your favor.

How this applies to music is that any popular musician, most likely got well known for their work in their early to mid twenties. I'll use very generic examples, Toto, Metallica, GNR, Led Zepplin, Beatles, almost anyone.

I dont know of too many artists who made it after crossing their 30s, nevermind their 40s. To be honest, the only individual I can think of who's made momentum after a certain age, within or outside the industry, is Rick Beato.

So the cryogenic lockdown is, perhaps, a way to weedout a generation of wannabe musicians. there simply isn't any space for them, definitely not guitar players.

But to be honest, its the doers who will gain momentum regardless of field. People who are woodshedding when they get spare time, like me, probably might not see much light if we keep approaching it this way. Whereas you have another individual with some knack for DAW and you get Billie Ellish or some newer variant of that.

So in someway I am grateful for my band. It's not shred, nor does it jazz or metal. But at least it's trying to produce something even though we have missed the age boat.

 

[Lozek]

I think that has changed slightly. Yes, the hot young talent happens in people's 20's but they don't always last, a lot of bands with more lasting success grind it out in their 20's but only start achieving in their 30's, examples of this would be Gojira or Architects.

There has also always been a certain element of people who started older too, Lemmy started Motorhead in his 30's, Mick Mars also when he joined Crue and Tommy Aldridge with Ozzy.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Are people not just playing because they get a kick out of it and like music? When I started at 13 or 14 I never intended to get famous or be rich with the hobby, I just saw bands I liked playing music and thought "I want to be able to play that song". There is no end goal in mind here except to improve and enjoy it more, which I have with each passing year. I've never been disappointed that I'm not getting endorsements thrown at me left and right and that I'm not out on tour, I just like to unwind with the instrument at the end of the day and make cool sounds.

IMO even if you're rich and famous and doing it as a career, if you don't just enjoy the thing you're doing, you're gonna be sad.

Sure, but how many talented musicians who are doing it for fun and not making any money will be able to tour regularly and still earn even a basic living? The fans will lose out...

 

[OmegaSlayer]

Sure, but how many talented musicians who are doing it for fun and not making any money will be able to tour regularly and still earn even a basic living? The fans will lose out...

At this rate, in this situation, even the "for fun" factor risks to go down the drain, because finding other 3-4 people that want to do it only for the fun is less and less likely, and it has its costs (like booking reharsal room or making your own), and do it on your own costs too...PC, recording gear, software licenses, instruments...

 

[Hoss632]

I've seen another notable band talk about the difficulties of making a living touring. They've been on the road for most of the past year plus. And the other issue they've said are road crews quitting or leaving in the middle of something. In europe they've said trucks are all taken up by Amazon for really good pay that the music industry and touring people can't match. Just seems in general that to make a living as a musician it's becoming harder and harder. Even for bigger bands.

 

[Lozek]

I've seen another notable band talk about the difficulties of making a living touring. They've been on the road for most of the past year plus. And the other issue they've said are road crews quitting or leaving in the middle of something. In europe they've said trucks are all taken up by Amazon for really good pay that the music industry and touring people can't match. Just seems in general that to make a living as a musician it's becoming harder and harder. Even for bigger bands.

Exactly, the associated costs are through the roof. For instance, pre-Covid my band would do a three week tour once a year, a bus was the safest and most cost effective way to travel (with support bands paying their part). What used to be a €17k upfront cost, to be recouped via merch sales and guarantees, is now €35k. By the time that lighting & mixing desk rental is taken care of, crew paid etc there is absolutely no chance of breaking even, let alone making anything.

 

[OmegaSlayer]

I've seen another notable band talk about the difficulties of making a living touring. They've been on the road for most of the past year plus. And the other issue they've said are road crews quitting or leaving in the middle of something. In europe they've said trucks are all taken up by Amazon for really good pay that the music industry and touring people can't match. Just seems in general that to make a living as a musician it's becoming harder and harder. Even for bigger bands.

Big bands are dangerous, they must phase out because they might exercise their influence

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

Inflation
Hiring wages
Ticketmaster fees
Tickets going from 5 bucks to sometimes well into the 300-400 range for legacy acts on their last legs
No new scene or band to light the industry on fire

Of course it is going to die. It is well on its last legs, but hey, "rock's not dead!" It has never been deader. Not even Dr Herbert West could reanimate this corpse.

 

[BlackMastodon]

Regarding: wait a couple of years:

That's a crazy comment. If you were in a band, how do you take this advice? Just go into cryogenic deep freeze for 5 years? Crawl into a hole and eat worms? What? Say you are 26 and at your peak to a kickass music career, doing okay as far as musicians go. You decide that the next 5 years will suck to be a musician, so you get a job loading/or/unloading boxes on a truck for 5 years. Now FF to when you are 31 and things start to turn around (as you predict), and you are too old for anyone to see you as a fresh face, especially compared to the other 26 year olds competing with you, and now you have 5 years of untreated health problems, since you are in the USA and health care here is inaccessible, including back problems from all of those boxes... Now what?

10 times outta 10 9 l wanna hear the music from the depressed 35 year old who had to make ends meet, not the fresh-faced 20 year old who graduated from the Petrucci Arpeggio Masterclass during their summer off from UCLA.

But that's just me and chances are that 35 year is still only gonna make a few bucks from me from buying their CD and a shirt from bandcamp.

 

[CanserDYI]

Sorry some stuff above got me thinking about for 99% of history, to hear a piece of music one had to have been within earshot of the actual instrument playing the music, and that the idea of a recorded album of music and songs is younger than Dr. Pepper.

 

[budda]

Hey, it’s bandcamp Friday.

 

[CanserDYI]

That's a crazy comment. If you were in a band, how do you take this advice? Just go into cryogenic deep freeze for 5 years? Crawl into a hole and eat worms? What? Say you are 26 and at your peak to a kickass music career, doing okay as far as musicians go. You decide that the next 5 years will suck to be a musician, so you get a job loading/or/unloading boxes on a truck for 5 years. Now FF to when you are 31 and things start to turn around (as you predict), and you are too old for anyone to see you as a fresh face, especially compared to the other 26 year olds competing with you, and now you have 5 years of untreated health problems, since you are in the USA and health care here is inaccessible, including back problems from all of those boxes... Now what?

....do you have a window into my life??

 

[bostjan]

So the record industry started in the mid-1800's (19th Century is 1800-1900)? My point was that being able to play an instrument at a relative level of proficiency was not uncommon a long time ago, and most people weren't trying to be "artists", even professional musicians for the most part weren't "artists" and nobody knew who they were. Much like most professional musicians today, actually. There's this weird thing where a lot of people who play rock/pop music think they're supposed to be able to make money from it, and people who were making money and are now having a harder time is somehow changing the landscape for THEM, even though the chances of them making money with "art" is slim-to-none whether it's 2023 or 1980. There's just been this grandiose vision of the rockstar implanted in people's brains, and it seems like its harder for people to grow out of compared to the idea that you can become a pro athlete. The truth has been that if you want to guarantee a career in music you become proficient at your instrument and you play whatever music is offering you money whether you think it's "art" or not.

Man, I wish I knew where local bands were ever making $500/night regularly. I've been playing live since about 2002 and unless we were also the promoter and ticket holders, $500 might be the take for all four-five bands on a bill at the local level

No, that's not exactly what I said, I said "latter half." The record player was invented in the 1870's and very quickly took off. For example, Colombia records started in the 1880's, and they were far from the first.

Detroit, late 1990's. I was in 5-6 bands at a time, usually, and we all got paid decently. Even in 2002, I was making at least that for a good Saturday night gig. It really wasn't until later in 2005, when the automotive industry started tightening its belt, and cashflow around the city started to dry up, that the rug got pulled out completely. But, even then, I was playing weeknights in a house band at a little hole-in-the-wall bar getting paid $200/night (as a three piece, so $66/each), which is as much as I'm getting paid now for a Saturday night gig, if I'm lucky.

We took some shitty gigs, too, back in the early 2000's. I remember driving an hour to some ice-fishing shanty town to play for a 1/4 cut of $20 ($5 for me), but those instances were rare, and now they are quite common.

You never had to be Steven Tyler to make a couple bucks in music. In the 1990's, it was as simple as recording a shitty demo tape on cassette, making copies, and passing those out to bar/club owners and local talent buyers, and you could start booking gigs that paid a little money. With gas being under a dollar a gallon, strings costing a few bucks a pack, and venues paying better, it was a winning value proposition for local bands to play. Now, in 2023, a pack of strings is over $10, gas is closer to $4/gallon, and venues are paying 25% as much, adjusted for inflation, so it's generally a losing value proposition for bands. My cut from a gig, after restringing two guitars and paying for gas round trip tot he gig is honestly averaging right around $0-10 per gig. On top of that, it seems like shows are creeping up earlier and earlier in the evening, so there's a chance that soon, I'll have to take an afternoon off of work to play a gig. At that point (hasn't happened yet, but I'm projecting that it will come), I'd be asked to sacrifice >$100 worth of wages/equal-value-benefits in order to earn literally a few bucks off of a show.

First of all, great post. "Rep points" to you.

In regards to the musician lockdown for 5 years is not meant for the 26 year old to wait it out. Its meant to weed him and others in a similar boat out.

We've been in this situation in our careers outisde of music. Let's say boomers who were programmers trying to compete against younger graduates. Or people who were hoping to become pilots, or even doctors. There's a small window where you have to make it across by a certain age, otherwise its just not in your favor.

How this applies to music is that any popular musician, most likely got well known for their work in their early to mid twenties. I'll use very generic examples, Toto, Metallica, GNR, Led Zepplin, Beatles, almost anyone.

I dont know of too many artists who made it after crossing their 30s, nevermind their 40s. To be honest, the only individual I can think of who's made momentum after a certain age, within or outside the industry, is Rick Beato.

So the cryogenic lockdown is, perhaps, a way to weedout a generation of wannabe musicians. there simply isn't any space for them, definitely not guitar players.

But to be honest, its the doers who will gain momentum regardless of field. People who are woodshedding when they get spare time, like me, probably might not see much light if we keep approaching it this way. Whereas you have another individual with some knack for DAW and you get Billie Ellish or some newer variant of that.

So in someway I am grateful for my band. It's not shred, nor does it jazz or metal. But at least it's trying to produce something even though we have missed the age boat.

Thanks!

IDK if I'm on board with a 5 year lock down. I've seen how a 1 year lockdown of local gigs affected things, and it did effectively weed out a lot of really pointless acts (I know this is subjective to a large extent). But I also saw how the really talented artists struggled so much. When things opened back up last year, all that was left were the really dedicated bands and artists, but, within a couple of months, the same knuckleheads who never bothered to learn how to play and gave up in 2020, were right back out there assembling new bands already. It's not like they gave up their ideas of being musicians, they just set them on the backburners for a while and switched to selling extended automotive warrantees over the phone for a few months. Whereas the dedicated musicians, who spent their time honing their craft, really had little that they could do.

I think there is a little blurring of the lines between professional musicians who make a living doing music and things related to music, and rockstars. I don't personally know a single person who became a rockstar, but I know hundreds of professional musicians. These are the people touring with various bands, sometimes recording stuff in studios for sometimes well-know artists, and other times up-and-comers who never up-and-come. They are the people who record the theme songs for games and cartoons or television shows or sometimes movies. They are the people teaching lessons. They often times work at Guitar Center or a local mom&pop music store.

But those people are really getting crushed by the direction the music industry is going. Tours are cancelled, and the tours that still happen are less lucrative for the rights holders, so they are paying their hired guns a lot less. No one really pays for session recording musicians anymore, and when they do, it's even less than it used to be (it typically wasn't much before, either). The past few years, there have been more musicians getting totally scammed by the studios making games and shows, and even if they aren't scammed, there's no doubt that these gigs are paying less than before. Fewer people are interested in lessons, or are only willing to do lessons online and then not pay as much money. GC locations are shutting down, and mom&pop music stores have been shutting down for decades. Record stores used to be another option, too, but are now virtually extinct, but might actually be trying to make a comeback, but it's more of a hip rich people thing than how it used to be an out-of-work musician thing. Hell, a lot of musicians I knew in the 1990's got a lot of their work at local radio stations, running a mixing board or even doing voice-over stuff, but that's all but dried up, too, as radio stations are way more monolithic and syndicated and especially more automated.

Again, I don't think anyone in particular is to blame for this...

Got a link to your stuff? I didn't see anything in your profile?

 

[c7spheres]

Hologram shows, because that's not expensive. Is A.I. behind all this? Trying to push VR goggles or something?