Vai, Petrucci talk about financial issues of touring.

[c7spheres]

Kind of like multiple satellite Branson and Vegas places but smaller. Or like Perma Fest locations. Near enough to major markets to be driven to, but far enough away to avoid some of the deeper tangle of overreaching bureaucracies. Hell, maybe even go the step of becoming a small unincorporated town or village. (Metalliberg and Dethville would make great names. European/near places like Gojirastan or Maiden, England)

Almost like a land based variant of some of the rock and metal cruises that have been happening.

Not a bad idea, but I don't know how long or even if it would be viable. Kind of skeptical about that, but it would be cool to see.

It don't matter how long it last. If they're legit they;ll go down with the ship! lol. I think the problem is bureaucrac. You ain't playing in our town unless ...xyz = $$$.
- They could save a ton of money currently if when everyone showed up at the venue it was just playing a video of them live from their bedrooms, live streaming. The only thing at the venue would be people and a big screen internet connection. Everyone could connect to their phone to bluetooth and watch it together at the venue. hahaha. It's what everyone wants and would save all that money. - Just use creative legalese wordplay. Everyone's doing it. Disclaimer: Ticklemaster will bring a live showing of said event ' Vai live'. no guarantee of Vai's location can be made, no refunds.
- Just think of how this can reduce the cost of prisoners. They could just phone in their cell time! Lol

 

[Scottosan]

Iron Maiden new European tour for 2023 was cut really short this time. I was wondering why and initially thought that maybe the boys are old and they dont want to do an extra 6-8 shows. Then I remember that they managed to Sold Out in hours a couple of Shows and booked some extra dates at same venues and it Hit me...


Ohhh they didnt shortened it, they are doing the same dates as before but having the extra shows at same Venues they are saving Money on Logistics and traveling.

Scalpers make more money per ticket than the bands or the ticketing entity. I think tickets should be tied to a name and that entry can only be attained if your ID matches your ticket, like the airlines. The bands and ticket entity can charge more, as they are providing an actual service, all while coming in cheaper that artificial price increases cause by opportunistic scalpers that provide no value. It's a win win for the customer and bands.

 

[ArtDecade]

Scalpers make more money per ticket than the bands or the ticketing entity. I think tickets should be tied to a name and that entry can only be attained if your ID matches your ticket, like the airlines. The bands and ticket entity can charge more, as they are providing an actual service, all while coming in cheaper that artificial price increases cause by opportunistic scalpers that provide no value. It's a win win for the customer and bands.

Ticketmaster owns most of the secondary markets as well.

 

[aesthyrian]

The live music industry is so monopolized. So many shitty Live Nation(ticketmaster) owned venues with no re-entry policies and $5 water. They do everything they can to make the experience that you pay for unenjoyable for yourself and extremely profitable for themselves.

Merch cuts aren't new, Oh Sleeper talked about them 13 years ago. No seemed to care. Now, it's affecting big names because the smaller names have been picked clean the past 10 years. https://www.theprp.com/2010/07/27/n...t-explains-why-mid-level-bands-make-no-money/

When we just ignore these issues for a decade they tend to get worse and here we are lol

I'm fortunate to have a few independent venues in my city, otherwise I just wouldn't see many bands live. It's not worth feeling like a ticketed fool and knowing your supporting the inevitable downfall.

 

[ArtDecade]

Who cares really? If the tickets are too expensive, don't go. That's the only way to bring prices back down. And the idea that artists can become rich in music is a relatively new one anyhow. The term starving artist wasn't ironic.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Scalpers make more money per ticket than the bands or the ticketing entity. I think tickets should be tied to a name and that entry can only be attained if your ID matches your ticket, like the airlines. The bands and ticket entity can charge more, as they are providing an actual service, all while coming in cheaper that artificial price increases cause by opportunistic scalpers that provide no value. It's a win win for the customer and bands.

The ticketing agencies mostly own the secondary market, and Ticketmaster's idea to combat actual scalpers is "dynamic pricing" which just means they pre-scalp the cost at the point of sale. The best thing that could happen to live music in the US would be for Live Nation/Ticketmaster to literally physically explode.

 

[-Cetanu-]

The live music industry is so monopolized. So many shitty Live Nation(ticketmaster) owned venues with no re-entry policies and $5 water. They do everything they can to make the experience that you pay for unenjoyable for yourself and extremely profitable for themselves.

Merch cuts aren't new, Oh Sleeper talked about them 13 years ago. No seemed to care. Now, it's affecting big names because the smaller names have been picked clean the past 10 years. https://www.theprp.com/2010/07/27/n...t-explains-why-mid-level-bands-make-no-money/

When we just ignore these issues for a decade they tend to get worse and here we are lol

I'm fortunate to have a few independent venues in my city, otherwise I just wouldn't see many bands live. It's not worth feeling like a ticketed fool and knowing your supporting the inevitable downfall.

Even back then long before COVID I knew many professional musicians that couldn't go back to some office dayjob during the off months when they weren't touring and they had to collect unemployment, had to drive cabs and teach music lessons.. etc. - and most of them had family to take care of.

And non-cover bands were always at a disadvantage when there wasn't a strong local music community with independent venues managed by musicians or enthusiasts. While touring around the world for 25 years with their bands some friends of mine didn't even earn half of what a cover band guitarist got per gig on average back then.

I stopped relying on it as my sole source of income over a decade ago and now when some big names are affected I suddenly have to care? I don't.

I agree, the issues were ignored way too long and we're seeing the result of it. At this point I'm for burning it all down and starting from scratch.

 

[tedtan]

Guys this is what I've been saying since about a year or so before covid.

And everyone will blame covid, but that no longer has much to do with it, other than the fact that this was well on its way before covid hit and then the situation just became more apparent because everyone stepped away from it for a year and some change and then came back and all of the differences hit all at once instead of gradually.

The music industry is losing steam slowly. Within that, rock music is losing steam much more rapidly than other genres. Within that, heavier music is maybe not losing steam as rapidly, but it's not nearly enough to keep up either. Smaller bands are getting hit by this a little harder than bigger bands.

Now we have guys like Bruce Springsteen out there charging thousands for tickets, and plenty of other bands making it so that you basically have to buy VIP packages to enjoy a show. I've even seen some venues starting to call just anything that's not a lawn seat a VIP package in order to justify prices that are quite shocking.

Yeah, this has been getting worse and worse for a long time. Covid was just the nail in the coffin, or maybe throwing the dirt back on top.

And I don't think that what's happening is as simple as "the rich are getting richer" although that's a card in play. This is more generally what happens when the population of the world catches up with what technology will support. It happened when life was miserable in the late 1700's and a bunch of societies revolted and then started wars, which killed off lots of people and pushed technologies ahead, then, in the later early 1800's things were much better, until the cycle started again just past the middle of the 19th century, and then they cycle started again with WWI, but something hiccoughed and WWII happened, and then the cycle hit it's apex during the economic prosperity of the 1960's, and we are rapidly approaching a nadir in the cycle again soon.

Going beyond the music industry here, but there is a book (a few, actually) on this idea based on the Strauss-Howe Generational Theory that goes back to the 1500s or earlier - The Fourth Turning by Strauss and Howe (and their prior Generations). Not necessarily scientific, but interesting nonetheless. You can find synopses online, on YouTube, etc. if interested.

 

[torchlord]

I came across this article where Vai mentions that things have gotten rather worse post-covid for the industry, particularly with touring. Petrucci has said something similar in a recent interview somewhere.

It's not new. Trying to earn a decent income in music has always been wishy washy for most. Vai, Petrucci have had their successes in the past, but what they are pointing out is that in this day and age its next to impossible.

Im posting this cause I find myself constantly browsing Sweetwater or Thonmann, comparing prices of guitars I like. The guitars, while adjusted to inflation is apparently the same price as they were maybe 20 years ago, really do appear more expensive.

I am in a band, where the founder is genuinly thinking of turning it into a money making thing. I dont know how we can actually do that, not that I am personallly intending to. But we do put the effort in making time to look for proper studio to record, outside of our day jobs.

It feels like an existential crisis. If I cannot justify the GAS, which is what inspires me, besides the music, it really puts things into perspective for me at a personal level. All that metronome practice, lurking around SSO for years, understanding the guitar market etc, and to have the greats talk about financial difficulties is sad.

Not posting this to look for some consolation. But do share if you have some perspective to this...

Anyways, here's the article.

Steve Vai Opens Up on Financial Issues With Touring, Says Big Bands Can’t Make Money

During his interview on Meltdown’s “Talkin’ Rock” podcast, legendary guitar virtuoso Steve Vai reflected on what many musicians are discussing

killerguitarrigs.com

This is all the result of the corruption of the government letting big pharma dictate how the pandemic was handled. Shutting down society over this was absolutely stupid and should have never happened.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

A lot of people used to justify pirating / illegally downloading music on the basis that "musicians earn most of their money from touring anyway".
Now the £0.01 they get paid for every 1000 Spotify plays is supposed to give them a decent living, even after deducting losses from touring.
😢

 

[budda]

If you like the music, figure out how to pay the band much more directly (bandcamp/patreon/literally DM them).

It’s a shitshow out there and I dont miss doing it at a professional level.

 

[narad]

Now we have guys like Bruce Springsteen out there charging thousands for tickets, and plenty of other bands making it so that you basically have to buy VIP packages to enjoy a show. I've even seen some venues starting to call just anything that's not a lawn seat a VIP package in order to justify prices that are quite shocking.

Yea, it's like they're taking lessons from the airline industry. Which of course is sooo much fun!

 

[c7spheres]

Who cares really? If the tickets are too expensive, don't go. That's the only way to bring prices back down. And the idea that artists can become rich in music is a relatively new one anyhow. The term starving artist wasn't ironic.

Noot sure if it's true but I heard from insiders that even huge acts like Ozzy only got a couple bucks per album. And that might have been for the whole band to split up how they see fit too. Insiders (hehe). It makes sense or I'd think Ozzy'd be worth a lot more than he even is estimated at based on album sales and merch alone let alone the MTV stuff etc. It's completely disproprtionate it seems compared to a single movie star/legend. Musician's seem to do way more work. Shoulda got work done and moved to Hollywood to try and 'be a star!' instead of gear. lol. yeah right.

 

[ramses]

Reading all these comments I see the following as immediate possibilities (not sure what to do about ~ 5 years down the line):

- Go back to the Mecenas/Patron model that was used by in-demand musicians until the 19th century;
- ... or, just play local shows;
- ... or, wait a couple of years for enough "random acts" to desist from their dreams until a sustainable number of competent bands remain/survive, and the costs of touring comes down accordingly.

 

[OmegaSlayer]

Do you guys realize that everyting is being transformed into "service"?
Art can NOT be a service
We can digress on the % of quality music/art that is floating around, but the more it becomes a service, the less people try to make it art, because 30 seconds of instagram will suffice

 

[RevDrucifer]

If you want to see some funny shit, find the thread on this over at TGP where it’s a bunch of dudes who play “Mustang Sally” at the VFW every other weekend ‘telling’ Vai what he needs to do to make money and how to effectively put on a show.

 

[BlackMastodon]

See? Everyone should be more like me: lurking SSO multiple times a day for the last 6 years instead of picking up a guitar or doing anything remotely musical, and only owning a paltry sum of middle-of-the-road gear. Yep, feels great to be validated for having never even come close to living the rock n roll dream. Everything's coming up Milhouse.

(/s if you couldn't tell; this is depressing as fuck and I guess everyone is just gonna be bedroom musicians or need a full-time career to make actual money off of)

 

[Demiurge]

Yep, feels great to be validated for having never even come close to living the rock n roll dream. Everything's coming up Milhouse.

The first band I tried to start in high school, my best friend backed-out because he was afraid of becoming a famous musician. He was ahead of his time.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Do you guys realize that everyting is being transformed into "service"?
Art can NOT be a service
We can digress on the % of quality music/art that is floating around, but the more it becomes a service, the less people try to make it art, because 30 seconds of instagram will suffice

I mean, up until the 20th century 99.9% of people that could play an instrument never did so outside of their house, or if they did it was small social gatherings where other people who also played an instrument happened to be, and just about anyone who wasn't dirt poor played some sort of instrument. The idea of each instrumentalist being a unique artist is relatively modern and the "rockstar dream" is even more modern. I'd say that lack of ability to turn it into something that generates profit will create MORE people doing it for art, not less.

 

[Matt08642]

Are people not just playing because they get a kick out of it and like music? When I started at 13 or 14 I never intended to get famous or be rich with the hobby, I just saw bands I liked playing music and thought "I want to be able to play that song". There is no end goal in mind here except to improve and enjoy it more, which I have with each passing year. I've never been disappointed that I'm not getting endorsements thrown at me left and right and that I'm not out on tour, I just like to unwind with the instrument at the end of the day and make cool sounds.

IMO even if you're rich and famous and doing it as a career, if you don't just enjoy the thing you're doing, you're gonna be sad.