US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

narad

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I've never heard of "conspiracy to commit anything suspicious" go to trial before.

No, it's called "seditious conspiracy" when they're charged and brought to trial for it.

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
 

Adieu

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I've never heard of "conspiracy to commit anything suspicious" go to trial before.

Anything suspicious part was sarcasm

Conspiracy to commit [insert any number of crimes] can certainly be prosecuted, given the will, if a group with unusual equipment (weapons, armor, items for taking hostages and/or kidnapping) collectively violently breaks into somewhere

Breaking into a government building with body armor and zipties? It's in the damn photo.

Some people just don't realize that the legal definition of the crime of sedition is a bunch wider than the dictionary word.

And even if they manage to get off on that... there's still conspiracy to commit any number of things and attempted even more things
 

bostjan

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It's laughable that you think this was an attempt to overthrow the government. It wasn't organized.
They were not at all armed, let alone well armed. At worst yiu could call it a riot. At best a demonstration. Either way, it was good to see the politicians afraid of the people for a change.

Was it a good look for Trump? Well, "look" implies perspective, which them implies subjectivity. But no matter how one thinks it looks, to throw around words like "coup" and "over throw" is ridiculous, no matter which perspective you may invoke.
So, to attempt to overthrow the government, according to you, you have to be:
1. Well organized.
2. Not only armed, but everyone at the event has to be "well armed." (Whatever that means.)

If you successfully broke into a government building, armed, with spoken intent to assassinate high ranking government officials, such as the Speaker of the House and the Vice President, murdering a police officer in the process, then, obviously, you're just there to sight-see, I guess, huh? But, lemme guess, anyone at a BLM protesting police officers choking a guy to death whilst he's detained and not resisting, well, those people must be the biggest ever threat to our way of life, right?

Naw, that's all sarcasm, my dude. All of those statements are absolutely ridiculous.

I'm sure there's some idiotic defense that those guys always walk around wearing riot gear with flex cuffs and bear spray. You and I know that that's bullshit as much as anyone. You don't go to see the president give a speech with peaceful intentions and then suddenly find yourself wearing a flack jacket and riot helmet mashing down the door to the capitol building.

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I've never heard of "conspiracy to commit anything suspicious" go to trial before.

Not surprising. You evidently don't know the meanings of words, like "demonstration," so why would anyone expect you to know "conspiracy?"
 

Drew

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It's laughable that you think this was an attempt to overthrow the government. It wasn't organized.
They were not at all armed, let alone well armed. At worst yiu could call it a riot. At best a demonstration. Either way, it was good to see the politicians afraid of the people for a change.

Was it a good look for Trump? Well, "look" implies perspective, which them implies subjectivity. But no matter how one thinks it looks, to throw around words like "coup" and "over throw" is ridiculous, no matter which perspective you may invoke.
It's way less laughable that I think this was an attempt to stop the formal certification of the election results, and kick off the formal process of changing power from the Trump Administration to the Biden administration, than that you think it wasn't.

There's ample evidence of coordination before the attack, TONS of photographic evidence of the attack itself, and while the rioters weren't able to accomplish their primary aim of stopping the certification of election results, they did manage to delay it for nearly 12 hours, after they broke into the Capitol building and forced Congress to flee and take shelter. There are also ongoing criminal prosecutions for about 800 rioters, of which 150 have already plead guilty and about 90 have been sentenced. Clearly some sort of laws were broken here. :lol:

The GOP's approach of challenging subpoenas in court to try to run down the clock and hope they can take control of Congress at the start of 2023 and close down the investigation into how closely the Trump administration was working with members of Congress and leaders of groups like the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers doesn't really inspire confidence in their innocence, either. :lol:

EDIT - here, let's spell it out for you.


"Did you do that sir, agree with Mr. Rhodes and develop a plan to stop the lawful transfer of presidential power by Jan. 20, 2021?" Judge Amit Mehta asked at Friday's hearing.

"Yes, your honor," Ulrich replied.

One of the members of the Oathkeepers charged with seditious conspiracy has already plead guilty to what you just said did not happen. :lol: You're deluding yourself if you think the events of January 6th were just a "demonstration." :lol:
 
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Thaeon

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It's way less laughable that I think this was an attempt to stop the formal certification of the election results, and kick off the formal process of changing power from the Trump Administration to the Biden administration, than that you think it wasn't.

There's ample evidence of coordination before the attack, TONS of photographic evidence of the attack itself, and while the rioters weren't able to accomplish their primary aim of stopping the certification of election results, they did manage to delay it for nearly 12 hours, after they broke into the Capitol building and forced Congress to flee and take shelter. There are also ongoing criminal prosecutions for about 800 rioters, of which 150 have already plead guilty and about 90 have been sentenced. Clearly some sort of laws were broken here. :lol:

The GOP's approach of challenging subpoenas in court to try to run down the clock and hope they can take control of Congress at the start of 2023 and close down the investigation into how closely the Trump administration was working with members of Congress and leaders of groups like the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers doesn't really inspire confidence in their innocence, either. :lol:

EDIT - here, let's spell it out for you.




One of the members of the Oathkeepers charged with seditious conspiracy has already plead guilty to what you just said did not happen. :lol: You're deluding yourself if you think the events of January 6th were just a "demonstration." :lol:


I don't know how you can come to any other conclusion other than sedition just watching the live news reels of that event. It was clear a day. And I know some conservative people that were cheering them on during the even. As soon as they failed and people were getting in trouble they abandoned ship in a hurry. Lots of people, on both sides of the aisle not speaking and making decisions with more than keyed up emotions. If you look at Trump's stance during the event, he was agitating the mob storming the capital. Encouraging them. And he's largely gotten to skate on ANY responsibility for what happened as a result.

Glad some of these people are taking guilty pleas. Though I don't think that some of them are anything but proud of what they did, and that fuels their testimony. With extreme groups like the Oathkeepers and Proud Boys, that can make you a martyr. So I see the wash out currently as a net nil. Sure we get some people to pin responsibility on and justice is served... Sort of. The groups those people represent get cemented in the idea that they are right and that they are persecuted. However ill informed that perspective is, it makes them more dangerous. And next time they won't notify us with a grand entrance. It'll be subtle right up until the time the damage is done. Politicians like Trump give these lunatics main stream exposure.
 

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Magical religious belief.

People whose personal beliefs align with what the current GQP says they defend have already decided “my side is right”. So now it’s just a matter of working backwards and denying reality until they can claim it’s everyone else that’s wrong/evil/ruining the country.

No one ever said wanting lower taxes was bad. It’s the whole conspiracy/removing women’s rights/trying to push for a Russian-style authoritarian government.

Reason being is that all these disparate groups of people all think they’d be part of the “superior in-group”.

Meanwhile elected officials feed them whatever the fuck lines they need to in order to keep getting elected and grift taxpayers.
 

Thaeon

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Magical religious belief.

People whose personal beliefs align with what the current GQP says they defend have already decided “my side is right”. So now it’s just a matter of working backwards and denying reality until they can claim it’s everyone else that’s wrong/evil/ruining the country.

No one ever said wanting lower taxes was bad. It’s the whole conspiracy/removing women’s rights/trying to push for a Russian-style authoritarian government.

Reason being is that all these disparate groups of people all think they’d be part of the “superior in-group”.

Meanwhile elected officials feed them whatever the fuck lines they need to in order to keep getting elected and grift taxpayers.

Because your politics is a religion. And if its not your religion, then you're doing it wrong.
 

Drew

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I don't know how you can come to any other conclusion other than sedition just watching the live news reels of that event. It was clear a day. And I know some conservative people that were cheering them on during the even. As soon as they failed and people were getting in trouble they abandoned ship in a hurry. Lots of people, on both sides of the aisle not speaking and making decisions with more than keyed up emotions. If you look at Trump's stance during the event, he was agitating the mob storming the capital. Encouraging them. And he's largely gotten to skate on ANY responsibility for what happened as a result.

Glad some of these people are taking guilty pleas. Though I don't think that some of them are anything but proud of what they did, and that fuels their testimony. With extreme groups like the Oathkeepers and Proud Boys, that can make you a martyr. So I see the wash out currently as a net nil. Sure we get some people to pin responsibility on and justice is served... Sort of. The groups those people represent get cemented in the idea that they are right and that they are persecuted. However ill informed that perspective is, it makes them more dangerous. And next time they won't notify us with a grand entrance. It'll be subtle right up until the time the damage is done. Politicians like Trump give these lunatics main stream exposure.
I mean, I fully agree. The start of every year is busy for me at work, but at some point during the early afternoon someone unmuted themselves on our ongoing audio chat and said, "hey, is anyone watching the news from the capital?" And from maybe 2 oclock onwards I just gave up and watched live coverage in horror.

It's easy enough to gloss things over after the fact by just being careful which pictures you show and using phrases like "peaceful demonstration" but watching the barricades fall and protestors smash their way through the security perimiter at the doors themselves... The only reason things stopped where it did was that we were able to evacuate Congress and get everyone out of there safely, so suddenly the insurgency didn't have a target anymore.

The confederate flag never made it into the capital building during the Civil War, but thanks to Trump's supporters, it did in 2021. That's absolutely fucked up.
 

Thaeon

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I mean, I fully agree. The start of every year is busy for me at work, but at some point during the early afternoon someone unmuted themselves on our ongoing audio chat and said, "hey, is anyone watching the news from the capital?" And from maybe 2 oclock onwards I just gave up and watched live coverage in horror.

It's easy enough to gloss things over after the fact by just being careful which pictures you show and using phrases like "peaceful demonstration" but watching the barricades fall and protestors smash their way through the security perimiter at the doors themselves... The only reason things stopped where it did was that we were able to evacuate Congress and get everyone out of there safely, so suddenly the insurgency didn't have a target anymore.

The confederate flag never made it into the capital building during the Civil War, but thanks to Trump's supporters, it did in 2021. That's absolutely fucked up.

I completely agree. Absolutely fucked up.

I couldn't believe what I was watching when it was happening...
 

thebeesknees22

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View attachment 108163

We're all doomed.

that was pretty f'n terrible.


they left out in that headline that it's believed the shooter shot his grandma before this went down as well.................................
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MaxOfMetal

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Ted Cruz rushing to be like we must protect rights of citizens.

Shit maybe if they did abortions with a gun Republicans would be okay with them.

Maybe we just need to reframe them as "very, very, very late term" abortions. Then maybe they'd do something to stop them. Cowards.
 

Randy

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I'm not jumping to any conclusions but Abbott's "handgun and maybe a rifle" felt like kneejerk cover for the seemingly high likelihood this was done with an "assault style" rifle and that would be the first thing people would go for.
 


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