US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

[Drew]

Just my pet conspiracy theory, but I actually don't think he does. The majority of conservatives know that their fox news Tucker Carlson talking points aren't true, but just to say it is like a kind of bizarro-virtue signaling to prove to themselves and others that they are on the conservative team. It's almost like that SNL skit where Michael Jordan is saying self affirmations into a mirror.

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"The election was stolen, drag shows are more dangerous than guns, and dog-gonnit, I'm a patriot"

TBH, while defamation is awfully hard to prove, for a media company - not only do they have to be wrong, they have to know they were wrong at the time, but still knowlingly reported falsehoods claiming they were true - the internal Fox News communications that have already come to light really have me wondering why Fox isn't trying to settle the Dominion lawsuit out of court. You have guys like Tucker Carlson privately admitting all this stuff is crazy, while at the same time they're repeating the same "crazy" stories as fact in their news segments.

Waiting to hear the official outcome of the Georgia grand jury, as well - the lead juror basically hinted as much that a whole bunch of people will be facing perjury charges because "this isn't rocket science."

 

[Drew]

Trump is being called to testify before a grand jury in the Stormy Daniels hush money investigation. In NY, individuals are usually given the opportunity to testify to a grand jury before being referred for prosecution, so the offer this late in the game is a pretty strong sign that he's about to be charged in a felony.

NY Times' analysis was that since the hush money payment itself wasn't technically illegal under NY State Law, it was the disclosure of the source of the funds paid to Cohen to make hush money payments. That's a misdemeanor, not a felony... so their guess is that it's being elevated to the level of fraud by the argument that this constituted an in-kind campaign contribution of Trump to his campaign, because had the story broken it could reasonably be believed to impact the presidential election, and hiding the source of an improper campaign donation IS a felony. That's an untested legal argument, though, so conviction is by no means a done deal if he's charged and if the facts of the case can be proven.

 

[StevenC]

There is a great irony that they guy who ran on the premise of arresting political opponents, and failing, is about to be arrested.

 

[CTID]

Have you met many Fox News watchers? If they don't believe that shit, they certainly do a good job of pretending. Got some relatives I can hardly talk to because every moment is a Fox News talking point spouted in your face. It's brutal, man.

yeah, my wife and i can barely speak to her mother because every conversation, no matter how innocuous, turns into a political rant on her part about how the libs are destroying something that she didn't care about until she heard it on Fox

 

[DarkstarII]

Trump is being called to testify before a grand jury in the Stormy Daniels hush money investigation. In NY, individuals are usually given the opportunity to testify to a grand jury before being referred for prosecution, so the offer this late in the game is a pretty strong sign that he's about to be charged in a felony.

NY Times' analysis was that since the hush money payment itself wasn't technically illegal under NY State Law, it was the disclosure of the source of the funds paid to Cohen to make hush money payments. That's a misdemeanor, not a felony... so their guess is that it's being elevated to the level of fraud by the argument that this constituted an in-kind campaign contribution of Trump to his campaign, because had the story broken it could reasonably be believed to impact the presidential election, and hiding the source of an improper campaign donation IS a felony. That's an untested legal argument, though, so conviction is by no means a done deal if he's charged and if the facts of the case can be proven.

Except that there’s a statute of limitations that’s involved and 2 other federal organizations chose not to pursue this case? Good luck with that…

 

[Drew]

Except that there’s a statute of limitations that’s involved and 2 other federal organizations chose not to pursue this case? Good luck with that…

Hey, I'm not the one charging him, I don't know why you're wishing me luck. But... thanks?

 

[DarkstarII]

Hey, I'm not the one charging him, I don't know why you're wishing me luck. But... thanks?

It’s a general “good luck”, not just directed at you. The entire situash is a cluster.

 

[Drew]

It’s a general “good luck”, not just directed at you. The entire situash is a cluster.

Eh, there was a pretty good walkthrough on the NY Times today, about the likely direction it was going to take. Statue of limitations shouldn't be an insurmountable issue, it's been lengthened in the past, and had already been extended under covid. If they have a case, being just outside of the statue of limitations won't stop a good case from moving forward. It's not surprising federal prosecutors chose not to pursue a case involving NY state election and fraud law, so that's not surprising either. The case for a misdemeaner, that hush money payments would rise to the level of "anything of value that could be expected to help a campaign" is pretty good, as is the fact that under NY law accounting for them as legal expenses was also illegal; the most tenuous part of the case is that the election in question was a federal and not state election. But, NY has laws regulating federal elections on its boards, and while it's never really been tested fully in the courts, it's come up in the past - John Edwards made similar hush money payments that resulted in a hung jury, and Michael Cohen pleased guilty rather than trying to contest this argument on closely-related charges. I'm not sure it'll result in a conviction, but I doubt Trump will be able to get the case tossed and it'll go to court.

All of this is kind of a moot point, though - I've said all along that the Georgia "solicitation of election fraud" case is the one where he's really fucked. That should be moving forward any day now, too.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Someone wake me up when he’s actually arrested and this proves to be more than political cannon fodder for riling up both bases. Until then this is just a repeat of the 3,000 other times I heard he’s going down, getting arrested, getting removed or whatever phrase has been thrown around to make people believe something is actually going to happen when it inevitably doesn’t.

Spare me the “….but this time…”, because that’s come along with those 3,000 other times.

 

[philkilla]

Manhattan DA cancels Wednesday meeting of grand jury in hush money probe

The New York grand jury weighing an indictment of former President Trump in connection with an investigation into a hush money payment is no longer scheduled to meet Wednesday, according to mu…

thehill.com

Maybe they'll figure it out next time...next week, or in two years

 

[Crungy]

Someone wake me up when he’s actually arrested and this proves to be more than political cannon fodder for riling up both bases. Until then this is just a repeat of the 3,000 other times I heard he’s going down, getting arrested, getting removed or whatever phrase has been thrown around to make people believe something is actually going to happen when it inevitably doesn’t.

Spare me the “….but this time…”, because that’s come along with those 3,000 other times.

I'd pay ahead on your bills to keep the heat/ac on while you sleep

 

[Xaios]

That should be moving forward any day now, too.

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard this, I'd be richer than Donald Trump.

 

[Drew]

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard this, I'd be richer than Donald Trump.

The investigation has been going on for some time, as has the grand jury - it was only within the last few weeks we got some signs that they were wrapping up. The NY ivestigation is a bit ahead of the Georgia one - with Trump called to testify it's extremely likely he'll be charged (this is protocol in NY, giving anyone facing an indictment the opportunity to testify before the grand jury at the very end) and signs coming out of the committee, not the least of which they opted not to meet today, suggest indictments are imminent. Georgia, it's harder to say. They appear to have essentially wrapped up, but I don't have a good handle on the timeline. It's absolutely possible they could snipe NY, but I'm not betting on it.

 

[thraxil]

Someone wake me up when he’s actually arrested and this proves to be more than political cannon fodder for riling up both bases. Until then this is just a repeat of the 3,000 other times I heard he’s going down, getting arrested, getting removed or whatever phrase has been thrown around to make people believe something is actually going to happen when it inevitably doesn’t.

Spare me the “….but this time…”, because that’s come along with those 3,000 other times.

I do think it's noteworthy that this time, it was Trump himself that was claiming that he was going to be arrested on Tuesday.

 

[DarkstarII]

@Drew, I very much appreciate your summations of the situation in your posts.

 

[Randy]

I think the Trump indictment thing is for real and not just political gamesmanship.

It's conspiracy beyond the reach I'm willing to go that an obscure DA in a burrough of NYC is indicting (or threatening to) Trump at the behest of the DNC or Hillary Clinton or anyone else. The guy is crooked and did a lot of lying and covering up to get where he is, and then more lying and covering up to cover THAT up. Add to that how long you couldn't touch him because he was in office, then how long you couldn't touch him because he refused to cooperate, and appealed any attempts just to collect information and yeah... Right about now is when you'd finally start getting anything.

Something notable about NYS politics specifically is that we're always backstabbing eachother within our own party. Cuomo stabbed Spitzer in the back, Cuomo stabbed Schneidman in the back, James and Hochul both stabbed Cuomo in the back, so on and so on. There are too many sects and too many self interested.


DA move is not coordinated with anyone. The mistake he made was thinking he could proceed with this case like any ol' case that came across his desk not realizing the level of scrutiny he'd get. I'm sure if anything the DNC et al told him don't touch it unless you're sure you're gonna put the guy away for life and even then, maybe leave him alone since he consistently polls behind our morons because he's a bigger moron.

That said, shit or get off the pot .

 

[narad]

I do think it's noteworthy that this time, it was Trump himself that was claiming that he was going to be arrested on Tuesday.

Somehow I feel like that makes it less credible.

 

[Randy]

Somehow I feel like that makes it less credible.

Trump very well might be trying to use it to drum up his base, yeah.

One notable kinda funny thing is that Desantis was getting a lot of pressure to publicly commit to not extraditing Trump to NYS and all he said was basically "meh Dems suck but I've got more important stuff to do".

That triggered Trump into a tirade against Desantis. Guy can't let go of his pettiness long enough to kiss up to the one guy that can save him from the guillotine.

 

[nightflameauto]

That said, shit or get off the pot .

If it goes like most things involving Trump, it'll be "get off the pot, then shit." And we'll all end up wading through the resulting mess, holding our noses and trying to pretend nothing happened.

 

[RevDrucifer]

I do think it's noteworthy that this time, it was Trump himself that was claiming that he was going to be arrested on Tuesday.

Of course, he knows how to rile up his base better than any politician I’ve ever seen.