US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

bostjan

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I always read that as people fishing for representation opportunities, rather than trying to tear down Muppets (although I'm sure that also happens). Still weird, but I can understand the motivation.

But hey, we live in modern times, where identity is everything to some people.
It's great for someone's identity to be super important to them. It's not so great when people, for whatever reason, get concerned about someone else's identity more than that person is comfortable. And, in the case of an object, rather than a person, I'd say that it's more ludacris than dangerous, but whoever is exhibiting that behaviour might likely have the same problem projecting onto people.

But, growing up in a private fundamentalist school and being around tons of fundamentalist people might have my perception skewed toward people being anti-Muppet over Bert and Ernie. In that case, it seems to me to be more a sign of mental illness than a silly nonsequitor.

And if people want to read into it something that they feel is positive, whether it's there or not, I'd prefer to disagree to myself, because, well, who cares?

And also, come on, why are people so crazy when it comes to Burt? Remember that joke site someone started about how Burt was evil, and a bunch of people ran with that as though it was all serious?

220px-Bin_Laden_Bert.png
 

TedEH

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it seems to me to be more a sign of mental illness than a silly nonsequitor.
I just meant to say that it's very normal for people to project themselves, or look for themselves, in whatever media they're consuming. If identity is very important to a person, it's not a shock that they'd read really far into the identities they see. In the same way that a musician might make a dumb facebook post about "which Muppet represents each music genre" or those obnoxious youtube videos that are just "what if popular song BUT METAL?!?!"
 

Drew

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I am confused about this law ….

Wouldn’t forcing states to recognize marriage licenses from other states be in violation of the Tenth Amendment? I didn’t think the Federal government had the authority over the states on marriage. But I’m not a lawyer so what do I know? Maybe someone can explain this.

My Florida Conceal Carry Permit is not recognized or valid in NY or CA. Will this extend to other forms of state-issued documents/permits?

I am sure this will eventually be reviewed by the SCOTUS, and make a ruling on its constitutionality.
I shouldn't feed the trolls...

...but Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the Constitution, the "Commerce Clause," allows the federal government to "....regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes." And, with marriage recognized under the US tax code as a valid filing status, and conveying economic benefits to married couples, this would seem to be pretty squarely under the purview of the Commerce Clause to have the federal government step in to ensure that a marriage recognized in one state isn't nullified if a federal taxpayer moves across state lines.

Unless of course you want to do away with the preferred tax status conveyed to married couples under the US tax code, at which point it would no longer fall under the purview of the Commerce Clause.
 
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bostjan

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I just meant to say that it's very normal for people to project themselves, or look for themselves, in whatever media they're consuming. If identity is very important to a person, it's not a shock that they'd read really far into the identities they see. In the same way that a musician might make a dumb facebook post about "which Muppet represents each music genre" or those obnoxious youtube videos that are just "what if popular song BUT METAL?!?!"

I mean, sure. But when I watch Muppets, I usually go for more boring and less inferential ways to see myself in the characters. Like, if I see Fozzy Bear, I'll think, oh, he's trying to be funny, but he sucks at telling jokes, I can relate to that, or if I see Dr. Bunsen, I think, oh cool, he's a scientist, like me. But I don't look at Rawlf the Dog and think "oh wow, Rawlf likes short brunettes, like me," because that makes no sense and is just taking things too far in all sorts of ways. But you do you, as long as it doesn't stop me from being me. :shrug:
 

MaxOfMetal

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I mean, sure. But when I watch Muppets, I usually go for more boring and less inferential ways to see myself in the characters. Like, if I see Fozzy Bear, I'll think, oh, he's trying to be funny, but he sucks at telling jokes, I can relate to that, or if I see Dr. Bunsen, I think, oh cool, he's a scientist, like me. But I don't look at Rawlf the Dog and think "oh wow, Rawlf likes short brunettes, like me," because that makes no sense and is just taking things too far in all sorts of ways. But you do you, as long as it doesn't stop me from being me. :shrug:

I don't know, have you ever seen those videos of black, Asian, etc. children getting toys that look like them? Or seeing movies with similar representation for the first time?

I'm no expert, but the amount of joy it sparks has to mean something, especially at that age. There's no way that's not a boon to self-esteem.

So I can see a young person coming to know who they are get some sort of comfort and joy in seeing inate parts of themselves, parts that unfortunately aren't often spoken of or represented in the best light, as "normal" or even "good" just like all the other kids.

It's not that you look at a gay Muppet and go "I wonder if he's a top or a bottom", that's just weird and far more sexual than the audience it's aimed for, it's "hey, that Muppet is gay, and no one cares, no one is hostile, they can just be themselves like everyone else", which I think children can grasp if not articulate.

I know "Representation" can get sort of weird and has really been co-opted by folks looking to stir shit or make a buck, but I think this particular case isn't objectively bad.

Also, can we reflect for a second about discussing Muppet sex? What a time to be alive.
 

bostjan

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I don't know, have you ever seen those videos of black, Asian, etc. children getting toys that look like them? Or seeing movies with similar representation for the first time?

I'm no expert, but the amount of joy it sparks has to mean something, especially at that age. There's no way that's not a boon to self-esteem.

So I can see a young person coming to know who they are get some sort of comfort and joy in seeing inate parts of themselves, parts that unfortunately aren't often spoken of or represented in the best light, as "normal" or even "good" just like all the other kids.

It's not that you look at a gay Muppet and go "I wonder if he's a top or a bottom", that's just weird and far more sexual than the audience it's aimed for, it's "hey, that Muppet is gay, and no one cares, no one is hostile, they can just be themselves like everyone else", which I think children can grasp if not articulate.

I know "Representation" can get sort of weird and has really been co-opted by folks looking to stir shit or make a buck, but I think this particular case isn't objectively bad.

Also, can we reflect for a second about discussing Muppet sex? What a time to be alive.

Your last sentence is exactly my point.

The scenario is not that the creators of the show/characters are saying "Burt and Ernie are gay, deal with it." It's that some insane southern pastors started harping about how Burt and Ernie were gay back in the early 1990's, and, people are still talking about it, even though the creators of the show were asked in interviews about it and basically just pointed out how insanely stupid the whole argument is.

And kids at 4-6 years old, according to our best science right now, aren't even developing psycosocial identity associations. So that makes this whole argument even weirder.
 

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Let's pull up the political discussion thre.....

Gay muppet sex and wondering if a specific muppet is a top or bottom?

I'm not sure if that's a new high or a new low, but it's something. It's definitely something.
 

MaxOfMetal

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Let's pull up the political discussion thre.....

Gay muppet sex and wondering if a specific muppet is a top or bottom?

I'm not sure if that's a new high or a new low, but it's something. It's definitely something.

Between this, the new Metallica song, and climate change - maybe we need to add "SSO turns things sexual" to the bingo card.

I was making fun of that sort of thing, since being LGBTQ isn't just about sex, so watering it down to such just seemed to miss the point.
 

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Also, can we reflect for a second about discussing Muppet sex? What a time to be alive.

Speaking of topically inappropriate sexualization by adults....

Working in public schools, all the olds like to complain about new dress codes that have been updated so as not to single out students of any gender identity. Specifically, they like to complain about teenage girls dressing like sluts, and it's always seemed really gross to me, like sure maybe they are but I don't think about whether teenage girls are sluts or not because it's not my business and also because I'm not a fucking pedophile.

Equally unpopular in the staff lounge is my opinion that instead of saying "these teenagers dressing like sluts are distracting the male students!" I say we should teach teenage boys that they aren't entitled to girls' and women's bodies and to mind their own goddamn eyeballs. Teenagers are distracted by fucking tiktok too but we still expect them to turn their phones off during class and learn algebra. It seems patently obvious to me that thinking like these other adults do requires placing teenage girls into a sexualized category in their minds.
 

nightflameauto

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Speaking of topically inappropriate sexualization by adults....

Working in public schools, all the olds like to complain about new dress codes that have been updated so as not to single out students of any gender identity. Specifically, they like to complain about teenage girls dressing like sluts, and it's always seemed really gross to me, like sure maybe they are but I don't think about whether teenage girls are sluts or not because it's not my business and also because I'm not a fucking pedophile.

Equally unpopular in the staff lounge is my opinion that instead of saying "these teenagers dressing like sluts are distracting the male students!" I say we should teach teenage boys that they aren't entitled to girls' and women's bodies and to mind their own goddamn eyeballs. Teenagers are distracted by fucking tiktok too but we still expect them to turn their phones off during class and learn algebra. It seems patently obvious to me that thinking like these other adults do requires placing teenage girls into a sexualized category in their minds.
Every time I hear some conservative windbag blowing air about sexualizing little girls my instant gut reaction is, "Then stop sexualizing little girls," to the person complaining. The projection is strong among that crowd.
 

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Also, been thinking about this for the last day or so. I'm all for civil, respectful, and at time spirited debate, but at what point does questioning the constitutionality of federal prohibition of discriminating on the recognition of marriage based on sex, race, or ethnicity stop being civil debate, and start being raw discrimination that we have a moral duty not to tolerate? Asking for a friend.
 


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