US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

profwoot

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So I don't want to derail the flag portion of the thread... but really curious to get some thoughts at this point.

What do y'all think that a civil war or whatever you want to call it... would look like? I'm not talking about [likely] continued attacks on govt officials and brick & mortars... but we as citizens, what might we expect?
It will look much like it does now, with increasingly frequent terrorist attacks and increasingly brazen roving militias. This type of warfare is called "insurgency" and the US sucks at fighting against it even when they don't care about civilian casualties. I don't know if the average Boogaloo Boi knows that's what a civil war would look like, but it's not like we're gonna start lining up across from each other with muskets. I'm not saying Civil War II has already begun, just that you know we're on a direct path when it's just "the same, but worse".
 

Crungy

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I feel it's loudly happening with the right and their undying love of daddy trump.
 

Mathemagician

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So I don't want to derail the flag portion of the thread... but really curious to get some thoughts at this point.

What do y'all think that a civil war or whatever you want to call it... would look like? I'm not talking about [likely] continued attacks on govt officials and brick & mortars... but we as citizens, what might we expect?

Bruh people are hanging out at “training camps” around the US. All just to LARP a revolution because they have nothing much going on giving their cushy lives value.

It’s so good here, that the stuff citizens argue about have been solved in 20+ other developed nations.

So they keep doing the same stuff they’re doing now like others have said.

I feel it's loudly happening with the right and their undying love of daddy trump.

If he said “everybody be cool and be nice” a portion would say “ok he’s playing 5D chess” and the rest would dump him and find a new guy to support.

Because facist leaders give regular tired people an out. Nazi’s used “Jews, gays, gypsies” etc.

The current fundies use “Jews, gays, progressives” as their catch-all boogie men.

It’s about an easy out. The idea that “if we get rid of X, my life will improve through no effort of my own”.
 

High Plains Drifter

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Solid insight... appreciated. And I certainly have never feared a "can't leave the house" kind of thing happening. But with where we're at now, it's definitely interesting to consider some of the different paths this could take. And I know Max nailed it as that's what's already happening. I meant more along the lines of individuals/ citizens. Just mind-blowing that so many people are not only bat-shit insane and hateful, but apparently that they have no place to be either... and have a mega hard-on for showing off their tactical toys to everyone. I remember doing that with a bb gun I got one Christmas but I was like eight yrs old. I keep all my toys hidden these days.
 

Grindspine

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On the flag front, I actually saw a "Blue Line" bumper sticker that was literally just two thick black lines with a blue line in the middle. It was way more subtle and not a bastardization of the stars & stripes. It got me thinking that I would actually like to see someone actually having a BLM and Blue Line flag together. Really, supporting police and wanting police to be accountable to treating people of all skin color equally should not be mutually exclusive.

But currently those are considered polar opposites, antithesis to each other. A few posts back, someone said that politicians' primary goal is to reconcile budgets. Yeah, they should be civil servants, not cult leaders.
 

nightflameauto

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Yeah, the problem is a lot of politicians get into the game with good intentions. Then they start getting the money, the adulation of the gregariously stupid clinger class, and start to believe their own hype. Money + power goes to their head and 'wanna be god' status is unlocked.

That's how you get shit-witches like MTG and dumbster fires like Trump. (I spelled it how I wanted to.)

'Real' civil war in America right now? Pffffffftt. We're all too lazy to really fire that shit off. It'll be isolated pockets of violence mostly swatted within a few hours and mostly publicly talked about as individuals that were unhinged.

If the right leaning fundies were anything near what they claim they are, they'd be going door to door, asking for affiliations, and shooting lefties outright for treason. But, even the seemingly completely unhinged aren't so unhinged as to think there would be no consequences for living out their wet dreams of autocratic fascism, so they masturbate to murder fantasy while rubbing down their weapons, polishing their bullets, and posting online about how much better we'd all be if we just bowed down and took Trump's cock up our asses.

How the self-proclaimed freedom brigade thinks that's freedom is beyond me, but if we pulled hypocrites down for being hypocrites, we wouldn't have politics at all.
 

Glades

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Yeah, the problem is a lot of politicians get into the game with good intentions. Then they start getting the money, the adulation of the gregariously stupid clinger class, and start to believe their own hype. Money + power goes to their head and 'wanna be god' status is unlocked.

That's how you get shit-witches like MTG and dumbster fires like Trump. (I spelled it how I wanted to.)

'Real' civil war in America right now? Pffffffftt. We're all too lazy to really fire that shit off. It'll be isolated pockets of violence mostly swatted within a few hours and mostly publicly talked about as individuals that were unhinged.

If the right leaning fundies were anything near what they claim they are, they'd be going door to door, asking for affiliations, and shooting lefties outright for treason. But, even the seemingly completely unhinged aren't so unhinged as to think there would be no consequences for living out their wet dreams of autocratic fascism, so they masturbate to murder fantasy while rubbing down their weapons, polishing their bullets, and posting online about how much better we'd all be if we just bowed down and took Trump's cock up our asses.

How the self-proclaimed freedom brigade thinks that's freedom is beyond me, but if we pulled hypocrites down for being hypocrites, we wouldn't have politics at all.

Politicians start getting $ and owing favors during their campaigns. The leading democrat running for senate this November in Florida has $45M in her campaign, and Rubio $25M. These people are in bed deep with corporations and special interests way before they get elected.
 

nightflameauto

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Politicians start getting $ and owing favors during their campaigns. The leading democrat running for senate this November in Florida has $45M in her campaign, and Rubio $25M. These people are in bed deep with corporations and special interests way before they get elected.
Yes, only Democrats fall into this.

Tell me, what color is the sky in your world?
 

CanserDYI

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In the UK, every politician who has used an actual Union Flag in their promotion looks like a fascist, but that's been around way longer than Trump and it's because flags are the things unhinged nationalists care about.



This local exposé sums up flags, to be honest. Apologies for the accents.

Tell me why you fucks still haven't slapped Y Ddraig Goch on your flag. You got the saint andrews cross, the english twat cross allllll up in there but yet no fuckin red dragon. They even included St. Patrick's cross in there and there are twice as many sheep shaggers as you guys!

Cymru am byth bitches.

EDIT: Second gen American pretending to be part of my grandfathers issues, here. Never stepped foot on British soil, but as a typical american, I will PROUDLY fly my flag for a country I've never stepped in hahahahaha
 

zappatton2

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Yes, only Democrats fall into this.

Tell me, what color is the sky in your world?
I mean, it is fair to note that both Democrats and Republicans are equally guilty of certain things, like being in the back pockets of vested powerful monetary interests. But it's also fair to note that only one side is actively encouraging violence, terrorism and mass social disruption.

Calls to violence just wouldn't work for the Democrats. Yes, they often work for the private interest, which is why Americans can't seem to get any of the social programs or quality of life many of their European friends enjoy, but they're still trying to sell themselves to moderates and progressives, people who want to build a better future rather than watch it all burn to get back at their perceived enemies. They can't sell violence to their voters, because their voters don't stockpile weapons and glorify combat, they push for civil rights and policy change, and get mischaracterized at every turn by Fox and friends.

Witness the BLM protests. The people coming out weren't selling conspiracies and trying to tear down government because an election didn't go their way. They were there to state clearly that police killing unarmed black citizens was not acceptable, and demand government at all levels build that accountability into law enforcement and the institutions of justice. And they were met with an aggressive police response (much more aggressive than aggrieved right-wingers have faced) and weaponized counter-protests that threw cities into disarray, all the more when opportunistic looters and vandals could exploit that chaos.

So what we're left with is a weird whataboutism where fascists who carry weapons, drive cars into people, and try to potentially assassinate public officials aren't "that bad", because those civil rights protesters on the left are burning down cities (they're not, but in a post-fact mindset, there's no distinction).
 

Drew

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Politicians start getting $ and owing favors during their campaigns. The leading democrat running for senate this November in Florida has $45M in her campaign, and Rubio $25M. These people are in bed deep with corporations and special interests way before they get elected.
I'll be honest - this is the first time I've seen someone try to spin "the GOP is at a massive fundraising disadvantage this cycle" into a GOOD thing. :lol:

The reactionary Right will be paying for Roe vs Wade for quite some time, I think.
 

Drew

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Because facist leaders give regular tired people an out. Nazi’s used “Jews, gays, gypsies” etc.

The current fundies use “Jews, gays, progressives” as their catch-all boogie men.

It’s about an easy out. The idea that “if we get rid of X, my life will improve through no effort of my own”.
This was NOT a popular opinion around here, maybe, but I've long held (since the 2016 primary season, really) that Sanders and Trump were essentially running two different versions of the same campaign. Their pitch, at essence, was "everything in the world sucks, and it's NOT YOUR FAULT." Biden it was just billionaires and big corporations, Trump it was Muslims, Blacks, Mexicans, and maybe the Jews (that didn't work for him). In both cases, though, populism with a scapegoat.
 

ArtDecade

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I never said only Democrats. All politicians do. Why do you guys always try to spin me as the villain here?
Villain? The people in your village don't usually call you that when you get lost.
 
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bostjan

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This was NOT a popular opinion around here, maybe, but I've long held (since the 2016 primary season, really) that Sanders and Trump were essentially running two different versions of the same campaign. Their pitch, at essence, was "everything in the world sucks, and it's NOT YOUR FAULT." Biden it was just billionaires and big corporations, Trump it was Muslims, Blacks, Mexicans, and maybe the Jews (that didn't work for him). In both cases, though, populism with a scapegoat.
That's correct. At least at a high level early on in the campaign.

Bernie Sanders, the millionaire politician who ran a campaign that the millionaire (later revised to billionaire) businessmen and politicians have it in for the common man, so you should elect him to protect you and repair the broken system.

Donald Trump, the billionaire businessman who ran a campaign that the millionaire businessmen and politicians have it in for the common man, so you should elect him to protect you and repair the broken system.

Both of them had some legitimate concerns voiced about the system trying to (unfairly) remove them from the running. Ultimately, though, Sanders didn't have the support for those concerns to really get anyone to care from the democratic side of things. Trump, on the other hand, started winning and his campaign started to go off the rails and lean pretty heavily on immigration.

I don't think Sanders would have been good for the country, overall. But I think a lot of that would have to do with the probability that he would end up just being too stubborn to work across the aisles on certain hot-button issues and that it would just breed more animosity between people of differing opinions. Instead, Americans elected Trump, who compromised only on his integrity and mostly just bred more animosity between different factions of Americans. :shrug:

But looking at it from an even higher level, Trump and Sanders are more of a symptom of the distrust of mainstream politics than they were ever a cause of any sort of political movement. Even now, with Trump basically owning his own cult of mindless minions, I still think that is the case. Those mindless minions existed before 2015, and would have jumped wholeheartedly at whatever batshit candidate the GOP would have chosen, whether it had ended up being Cruz or Bachmann or Lex Luthor or whatever.
 

Drew

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I don't think Sanders would have been good for the country, overall. But I think a lot of that would have to do with the probability that he would end up just being too stubborn to work across the aisles on certain hot-button issues and that it would just breed more animosity between people of differing opinions.
Honestly, this is my thought too, and I suppose you're in part responsible for that, with your insight into VT politics post-Sanders.

But I think the hot moment there where he became the frontrunner in 2020 makes that case pretty well, as well. When push comes to shove, I have a lot more sympathy for Sanders' policy goals than I do for Trump's - Sanders at least for the most part wants to make the world a better place, build better safety nets, address climate change, make the economy provide fairer outcomes for more participants, etc. And, it's possible to imagine a Sanders presidency actually not ending in disaster.

But, what Sanders needed to do in 2020, when suddenly he did become the front runner, was to show what he would bring to the Democratic party, how he could be their representative in 2020 and what the party would look like under him, and what sort of future Democrats who voted for him would be voting for. If he was gouing to be the Democratic nominee, how would he represent Democratic voters? Instead, he continued to run an outsider's campaign, and continued to attack the party he wanted to represent, attacking "big businesses and establishment Democrats," rather than campaigning on how we would represent Democrats in Washington and what his vision for the future of the party was. And that's innately self-contradictory; you can't represent a party by attacking it, you can't run an anti-establishment campaign while representing the establishment, etc. Even a token gesture towards party unity and bringing both wings of the party together, and Sanders probably would be president today.

But, if he couldn't do that, even a cursory extended hand across the aisle trying to unite the party... yeah, his presidency would have been an unmitigated mud-flinging fest. He would have tried to go his own way, wouldn't have the votes, and wouldn't have gotten a damned thing done.

Paradoxically, I don't know if anyone in this thread is really enthused about Biden... but he got a big early stimulus bill across the aisle (which as it turns out he shouldn't have :lol:), got a hard infrastructure bill done, something that had been an objective of a whole bunch of recent administrations but no one could get it across the line, then hit a bit of a stall there before in the last few weeks getting a big climate bill done, a reworked Build Back Better Act under the guise of the Inflation Fighting Act or whatever we finally called it, and then a major US chip production deal right around the same time. It's actually been a while now since an administration has had as many major pieces of legislation to its name as Biden has in the first two years of his presidency, even with large margins in the House and Senate (which Biden absolutely does NOT have) and while it'll be a LONG time before the jury is in, it's possible we'll be looking back at this in ten years time and despite all the chaos and gridlock and frustration we're feeling now, we may look back at Biden as having been unusually effective.
 

nightflameauto

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I never said only Democrats. All politicians do. Why do you guys always try to spin me as the villain here?
Buddy, you need to consider something here. And this is as gentle as I can be while suggesting this.

If you run into an asshole in the morning, that guy may be an asshole.

If you run into assholes all day? Maybe they aren't the assholes.

If "everybody" (you guys) in here is "spinning you as the villain," you may want to, perhaps, think about your posting style. Literally not a single post of yours comes across as anything other than one of two things:
Smear the libs / dems.
Stroke the cons / reps.

That is 100% of your posts, outside of the incessant whining about how unfairly you're being treated.

Food for thought, that I'm certain you'd rather starve than allow yourself to partake in.
 


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