Torn between EMG's or SD Black Winters in my ESP guitars

[cthonian]

Hello,

I own an ESP E-II M-II, which has the stock EMG 81 set and I'm thinking of swapping them out for the SD black winters. However, I'm hesitant to do that because I think those pickups might end up sounding too bright & thin in this guitar, since it has an ebony fretboard with a maple top and alder body. I tune this guitar to D standard and I love how it sounds with distortion but I wish it had a more usable clean tone.

I also have an LTD Arrow Black Metal on the way, and I'm considering switching out the single EMG 81 it has for the black winter bridge. I'm under the impression that this pickup might sound better in this guitar because it has a mahogany body, which would tame the brightness.

If I went in that direction though, I would not be able to use the black winter neck p/u at all which I'm a big fan of. If I were to keep the EMG's in the M-II, I would end up switching the 81 in the neck for an 85 to get better cleans.

All in all, I have decided that one of these guitars will have the black winters and the other one EMG's. I previously had the black winters in my LP standard which is maple & mahogany and they sounded really good, but I swapped them out for Lundgren black heavens. So I at least know that these pickups can sound good in the right guitar. I also want to add that I've read of some LTD Black Metal owners switching out the stock black winter for the EMG 81 because for whatever reason, it ended up sounding too thin.

Apologies for the paragraphs but I need some insight.

 

[Tree]

Wait until you get the guitar to decide. You can’t guarantee that it’s going to be bright until you actually have your hands on it. That said, you’re choosing from two very good sets of pickups. You likely won’t be disappointed regardless of what you choose as you really can’t go wrong either way.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

If you want a better clean tone then look into the EMG X series. Easier swap than gutting the electronics and going passive.

I wouldn't bother swapping the arrow's pickups until you try it at least.

 

[Baelzebeard]

I find the Black Winters to be darker, thicker than EMG 81 in similar guitars.

 

[slavboi_delight]

89 in the neck
It still fits the cavity and the route and has fairly thick cleans and great single coil tones.
Only thing is you have to rewire the guitar.
But ain't no biggie when solderless.

 

[MAJ Meadows SF]

89 in the neck
It still fits the cavity and the route and has fairly thick cleans and great single coil tones.
Only thing is you have to rewire the guitar.
But ain't no biggie when solderless.

That's not a bad idea. 89 is a pretty good neck pickup.

I do not think you'd have trouble with the BW in an alder body. It's not a bright wood, and the BWs only get bright to my ears in different ash bodies. I think the swap is a safe one for the full set.

I'd definitely see how the 81 feels in the Arrow too; I normally swap to Hets or 81x, but I loved the 81 in the Black Metal EX and RM-600.

Whatever you decide to do, chime in with how it goes!

 

[gclef]

Wait until you get the guitar to decide. You can’t guarantee that it’s going to be bright until you actually have your hands on it. That said, you’re choosing from two very good sets of pickups. You likely won’t be disappointed regardless of what you choose as you really can’t go wrong either way.

So true. Whenever I put a guitar together, or try for the first time, I play it unplugged for a while to see how the inherent sound is. I choose pickups to suit that. It avoids choosing an overly middy pickup going into a middy guitar for example.

This was a very valuable lesson for me over the years.

 

[SalsaWood]

EMGs are a one trick pony. Unlike Black Winters, that trick is actually worth it.

 

[Manurack]

Go with passives my man. No battery changes and they always sound amazing when you plug in.

 

[Blytheryn]

So true. Whenever I put a guitar together, or try for the first time, I play it unplugged for a while to see how the inherent sound is. I choose pickups to suit that. It avoids choosing an overly middy pickup going into a middy guitar for example.

This was a very valuable lesson for me over the years.

You judge what pickups to put in a guitar based on how it sounds unplugged? Interesting.

 

[shalev98732]

Hello,

I own an ESP E-II M-II, which has the stock EMG 81 set and I'm thinking of swapping them out for the SD black winters. However, I'm hesitant to do that because I think those pickups might end up sounding too bright & thin in this guitar, since it has an ebony fretboard with a maple top and alder body. I tune this guitar to D standard and I love how it sounds with distortion but I wish it had a more usable clean tone.

I also have an LTD Arrow Black Metal on the way, and I'm considering switching out the single EMG 81 it has for the black winter bridge. I'm under the impression that this pickup might sound better in this guitar because it has a mahogany body, which would tame the brightness.

If I went in that direction though, I would not be able to use the black winter neck p/u at all which I'm a big fan of. If I were to keep the EMG's in the M-II, I would end up switching the 81 in the neck for an 85 to get better cleans.

All in all, I have decided that one of these guitars will have the black winters and the other one EMG's. I previously had the black winters in my LP standard which is maple & mahogany and they sounded really good, but I swapped them out for Lundgren black heavens. So I at least know that these pickups can sound good in the right guitar. I also want to add that I've read of some LTD Black Metal owners switching out the stock black winter for the EMG 81 because for whatever reason, it ended up sounding too thin.

Apologies for the paragraphs but I need some insight.

my friend has the same esp e-ii m-ii, guitar he put the black winter in it and honestly its better than the emg 81 he had in it, althrough theyre now putting bare knuckle aftermath in it stock and i tried it in the guitar sotre i work at and i can defenitly recommend the aftermath if you got the extra cash for them

 

[Lemonbaby]

EMG 81s sound like shit to begin with while the Black Winter's one of the best pickups ever built. My contribution to Unpopular Opinion Day 2023.

 

[gclef]

You judge what pickups to put in a guitar based on how it sounds unplugged? Interesting.

I do.

Would you put full shreds in a bright, thinner sounding guitar? Or one that is less so?

I made the first error and put them in an rg921 that was bright and thin. It screamed! But was hard to get to sound really good without massive amp eq adjustment.
That guitar now has breeds, which are quite the opposite, being fatter and less high end. The guitar is a beast now!

Those very same full shreds went into my mahogany rg520qs, which is thicker sounding, and sound amazing, while a tonezone was mud city. A norton was great too. I know the tonezone would work great in the 921.

The reasoning is to balance the eq of the pickups with the guitar's

Give it a whirl. You can get close without a million pickup swaps.
For example, now that I know the type of pickups that work with the 921, I could refine my choices from the breed set, if I wanted to. The tz/an for instance if I wanted a more modern sound.

 

[Blytheryn]

I do.

Would you put full shreds in a bright, thinner sounding guitar? Or one that is less so?

I made the first error and put them in an rg921 that was bright and thin. It screamed! But was hard to get to sound really good without massive amp eq adjustment.
That guitar now has breeds, which are quite the opposite, being fatter and less high end. The guitar is a beast now!

Those very same full shreds went into my mahogany rg520qs, which is thicker sounding, and sound amazing, while a tonezone was mud city. A norton was great too. I know the tonezone would work great in the 921.

The reasoning is to balance the eq of the pickups with the guitar's

Give it a whirl. You can get close without a million pickup swaps.
For example, now that I know the type of pickups that work with the 921, I could refine my choices from the breed set, if I wanted to. The tz/an for instance if I wanted a more modern sound.

That's an interesting take. I've always gone off of how a guitar sounds when plugged in, as I've noticed guitars can sound totally acoustically dead unplugged, but absolutely scream when plugged in.

 

[Grindspine]

If you want a better clean tone then look into the EMG X series. Easier swap than gutting the electronics and going passive.

I wouldn't bother swapping the arrow's pickups until you try it at least.

I second trying the EMG X series. The X series is pretty much the same wind on the pickups with a more refined preamp; the x preamp is turned down a notch, has more headroom, and better cleans than the original EMGs. I've got an old B.C. Rich Virgin with an EMG 81x, 60x, and SPC boost replacing the tone control. With the SPC down, it's pretty much a cleaner version of the 81 and 60. With the SPC control turned up a bit, the mids are thicker and fatter. WIth it up all the way, it's like running through a fat boost pedal.

 

[lewis]

EMG 81s sound like shit to begin with while the Black Winter's one of the best pickups ever built. My contribution to Unpopular Opinion Day 2023.

One of the silliest takes ive read

 

[Hoss632]

Black winters will be much darker than an EMG 81. I'd wait to get the guitar and see what you think. I think if you are playing Drop C and lower the 81 is the better choice. They just sound great in Drop C to Drop A to me. That said neither set of pick ups are a bad choice at all.

 

[narad]

That's an interesting take. I've always gone off of how a guitar sounds when plugged in, as I've noticed guitars can sound totally acoustically dead unplugged, but absolutely scream when plugged in.

I think he's trying to get a sense of the "natural eq" of the guitar, then choose a pickup to suit. If you judge it be recorded sound, you have to know how the newer pickup relates to the old one in ways that are hard to assess.

I don't know the soundness of any of it. I petty much just choose randomly with no regard for the actual guitar. To me, three numbers for B/M/T from different manufacturers isn't sufficiently helpful to begin with.

 

[Darkscience]

Hello,

I own an ESP E-II M-II, which has the stock EMG 81 set and I'm thinking of swapping them out for the SD black winters. However, I'm hesitant to do that because I think those pickups might end up sounding too bright & thin in this guitar, since it has an ebony fretboard with a maple top and alder body. I tune this guitar to D standard and I love how it sounds with distortion but I wish it had a more usable clean tone.

I also have an LTD Arrow Black Metal on the way, and I'm considering switching out the single EMG 81 it has for the black winter bridge. I'm under the impression that this pickup might sound better in this guitar because it has a mahogany body, which would tame the brightness.

If I went in that direction though, I would not be able to use the black winter neck p/u at all which I'm a big fan of. If I were to keep the EMG's in the M-II, I would end up switching the 81 in the neck for an 85 to get better cleans.

All in all, I have decided that one of these guitars will have the black winters and the other one EMG's. I previously had the black winters in my LP standard which is maple & mahogany and they sounded really good, but I swapped them out for Lundgren black heavens. So I at least know that these pickups can sound good in the right guitar. I also want to add that I've read of some LTD Black Metal owners switching out the stock black winter for the EMG 81 because for whatever reason, it ended up sounding too thin.

Apologies for the paragraphs but I need some insight.

Did you like the Black Heavens better than the Winters in the same guitar?

 

[MASS DEFECT]

Try the EMG Hetset instead. Sounds thicker than an 81. Nicer cleans/headroom. And would definitely be at par with a Black Winter.