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ShredmasterD

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Going out and putting on a shitshow is not better than canceling. I would 100% rather not see a show than show up and have the fucking tour manager filling in on vocals, or the vocalist trying to play an instrument they're not used to having on-stage. This type of band (and most original acts) aren't Phish, or Dead & Co. where you can sub out a main guy when he has a cold and pretend it's a feature of the show. A lot of people are their for the personalities, or to hear their favorite songs. It's not a Broadway show where there's an understudy for each character, or a blues jam where you can kinda suck and still get by. And nothing personal, but as far as I know, you have as much experience performing for $10k+ guarantees as I do, so why would you know any more about this than anyone else in the thread? Could you image going to see Ozzy and some rando comes out on stage and introduces himself as the guitar tech, but he's filling in for Ozzy because he's sick? That would be sooooo much worse than just calling the show.
saw brad gillis step and perform the entire show only a few days after randy rhoads died.
 

GunpointMetal

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Part of this is the crossover of "band" and "dj" to the point where the "show" is more "dj" than "band."

Really? That last point? Really?

Fucking Metallica, in the nineties, so well into their prime, had a tech fill in on guitar for James. Never heard anybody disappointed by it. Fucking Metallica. James fuckin' Hetfield--arguably, his right hand is the star of the show--had a tech fill in.

Maybe you're feeling like you're stretchin' your britches with this argument, but I think ya missed the mark, bud.
Did the tech do the vocals, too?
i

saw brad gillis step and perform the entire show only a few days after randy rhoads died.
On an Ozzy tour, right?
 

mmr007

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I hesitate to bring this up but it amazes me that Pantera think they can go tour without Dime but FIR can't play a single show without a laptop.

I would agree with the aforementioned comments about DJ's.....that a guy pressing "play" on his ipod in front of 60,000 dipshits on molly in Indio California alongside actual bands blurred the line between what is and isn't a live performance. Add that sometimes Buckethead plays his guitar parts with nothing but backing tracks and this singer from Stone Roses is doing a karaoke tour with a full backing track for a band and the list goes on.....

It sucks but I think seeing a band live will now forever mean you "experienced" the band live, not that the band actually recreated their music live in any sense.
 

GunpointMetal

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I hesitate to bring this up but it amazes me that Pantera think they can go tour without Dime but FIR can't play a single show without a laptop.

I would agree with the aforementioned comments about DJ's.....that a guy pressing "play" on his ipod in front of 60,000 dipshits on molly in Indio California alongside actual bands blurred the line between what is and isn't a live performance. Add that sometimes Buckethead plays his guitar parts with nothing but backing tracks and this singer from Stone Roses is doing a karaoke tour with a full backing track for a band and the list goes on.....

It sucks but I think seeing a band live will now forever mean you "experienced" the band live, not that the band actually recreated their music live in any sense.
Been that way for 30+ years after a certain level.
 

RevDrucifer

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Part of this is the crossover of "band" and "dj" to the point where the "show" is more "dj" than "band."

Really? That last point? Really?

Fucking Metallica, in the nineties, so well into their prime, had a tech fill in on guitar for James. Never heard anybody disappointed by it. Fucking Metallica. James fuckin' Hetfield--arguably, his right hand is the star of the show--had a tech fill in.

Maybe you're feeling like you're stretchin' your britches with this argument, but I think ya missed the mark, bud.

There was also the Summer Sanitarium gig where Lars couldn’t play so they had every other drummer come out and play instead. No one had time for rehearsal and while plenty of guys on that tour were hugely influenced by Metallica when growing up, it’s still a totally different thing to get on a stage in front of 60,000 people, unrehearsed and you gotta play with the world’s biggest metal band that you’re also a huge fan of. The mental aspect of that must have been nuts for those drummers but they all got up and did it.

Or Randy from LoG getting covid a couple months ago and they scrambled to find fill-in singers who all had to read lyric sheets on the floor and only knew the songs on a surface level.

I pretty much came to the conclusion it’s all a lost cause once actual musicians started agreeing it was perfectly fine to put standard instruments on backing tracks to use at live performances, not just shit that’d cost a fortune pull off live like choirs, orchestras, etc. I think it’s lame as fuck to have regular guitar and bass tracks on tape, or if you’ve got 5 guys onstage and still need fucking backing vocals on tracks.

IDGAF how boomery it is to expect a band to put the effort into pulling their shit off live, there’s no way I’ll ever see it differently.
 

tedtan

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Going out and putting on a shitshow is not better than canceling. I would 100% rather not see a show than show up and have the fucking tour manager filling in on vocals, or the vocalist trying to play an instrument they're not used to having on-stage.
That’s at least twice that you’ve equated not having backing tracks with being a shit show. Why does performing without some backing tracks automatically equal shit to your mind? People have done that successfully for centuries. Again, there is nothing wrong with backing tracks, but they are not a necessity.


This type of band (and most original acts) aren't Phish, or Dead & Co. where you can sub out a main guy when he has a cold and pretend it's a feature of the show. A lot of people are their for the personalities, or to hear their favorite songs. It's not a Broadway show where there's an understudy for each character, or a blues jam where you can kinda suck and still get by. And nothing personal, but as far as I know, you have as much experience performing for $10k+ guarantees as I do, so why would you know any more about this than anyone else in the thread? Could you image going to see Ozzy and some rando comes out on stage and introduces himself as the guitar tech, but he's filling in for Ozzy because he's sick? That would be sooooo much worse than just calling the show.
Believe it or not, this happens all the time. As @nightflameauto mentioned, James Hatfield burned his right hand because he was standing too close to a pyro and couldn’t play guitar for a couple of weeks, so his tech filled in and no one cared (Hetfield still sang). And that’s just one of many such instances.

Trust me, if Metallica could do that while they were one of the biggest bands on the planet, Shitting in Reverse can do it as unknown nobodies.


Part of this is the crossover of "band" and "dj" to the point where the "show" is more "dj" than "band."
To which I would ask: why would someone pay to see a DJ “perform” live? I know they do, but why (serious question)?

If you just want to hang out and get high in a crowd, you don’t need a DJ for that.
 

tedtan

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So a secondary/tertiary part of the show was replaced… few days later?
Without Randy Rhoads, Ozzy would not have had a career post Sabbath. Full Stop.

He was hardly a secondary/tertiary part of the show and to state so indicates your ignorance of the subject matter. Modern bands are cool, but you’re missing out on some great music if you’re not also looking back to your favorite bands’ influences, and their influences’ influences, etc.
 

ShredmasterD

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Without Randy Rhoads, Ozzy would not have had a career post Sabbath. Full Stop.

He was hardly a secondary/tertiary part of the show and to state so indicates your ignorance of the subject matter. Modern bands are cool, but you’re missing out on some great music if you’re not also looking back to your favorite bands’ influences, and their influences, etc.
exactly correct. and a style of metal from all the young players emulating him would not have happened. i would call rhoads coequal to, or greater than ozzy himself in the blizzard of oz era. in NO WAY a simple replacement a few days after he died.
 

nightflameauto

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To which I would ask: why would someone pay to see a DJ “perform” live? I know they do, but why (serious question)?

If you just want to hang out and get high in a crowd, you don’t need a DJ for that.
That's a very fair question and I have no idea why. I mean, you wanna hit the club and listen to tunes real loud? Cool. But don't call it a concert.

I think there's something lost on the younger generation that never got swept up in that vicious circle at a metal show where the music literally lived and breathed with the audience. Where the songs and the rhythms feel alive as the audience rises and falls with the band.

If you've never been there, maybe you truly believe you HAVE to have backing tracks, clicks, perfect everything for any form of 'show?' *SHRUG*

Don't get me wrong, I've seen Dethklok, which is arguably one band that would be vastly different without the click and cartoon playing. But you can't argue those fuckers wouldn't be able to play the show without all that shit. Both times I saw them at the end of the show they turned off all the bullshit and just played a couple crowd demolishers without enhancement and it was awesome.

And if I hear one word of besmirchment against Gene fuckin' Hoglan, Bryan Beller, Mike Keneally, and Brendan Small I'll get old man angry up in this piece.
 

Mathemagician

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As long as Gen X - who had the coolest sounding name - know their place. And judging by this thread they do. Now go wait for your bosses to “retire” for another decade in the hopes of getting promoted.
 

ShredmasterD

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know their place? someone gunna put them "back in their place" if they stray from someone's approval or something? gen x fools, working for a living...who knew the world need people to produce things. shit grows on trees for free everyone knows that
 

RevDrucifer

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That's a very fair question and I have no idea why. I mean, you wanna hit the club and listen to tunes real loud? Cool. But don't call it a concert.

I think there's something lost on the younger generation that never got swept up in that vicious circle at a metal show where the music literally lived and breathed with the audience. Where the songs and the rhythms feel alive as the audience rises and falls with the band.

If you've never been there, maybe you truly believe you HAVE to have backing tracks, clicks, perfect everything for any form of 'show?' *SHRUG*

Don't get me wrong, I've seen Dethklok, which is arguably one band that would be vastly different without the click and cartoon playing. But you can't argue those fuckers wouldn't be able to play the show without all that shit. Both times I saw them at the end of the show they turned off all the bullshit and just played a couple crowd demolishers without enhancement and it was awesome.

And if I hear one word of besmirchment against Gene fuckin' Hoglan, Bryan Beller, Mike Keneally, and Brendan Small I'll get old man angry up in this piece.

I’m more than sure the only reason Dethklok was running a click was to keep in sync with the video stuff. I mean, those guys are on a whole different level of awesome.

I brought this up over at TGP as well, but Devin Townsend used to go out with a shitload of backing tracks up until his last tour, the one he brought Keneally out on. No backing tracks, no clicks, 100% live and it was the best I ever heard him live.

 

Thaeon

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I can totally understand how a show hinges on computer control and not wanting to give a half-ass performance. What I don't understand is how a band of that level doesn't have all of their critical files backed up multiple places and how they can't just go grab some new laptops. Once you get to venues where bands don't play on the floor anymore a good majority of bands rely on computers for either tracks, control, IEMs, etc. Welcome to the current year or whatever.

This.

There are plenty of bands whose set and lighting is all run off of a laptop that has all of it sync’d up. A computer failure or theft could make it practically impossible to play a show. However, there should be backups carried around in multiple places. One of the bud, one in the cloud, and ideally one that stays with each band member. It’s not expensive to do. That way you can run out and grab a new new machine and spin it up at a moment’s notice, if the machines are stolen, missing, or broken. Always have a backup.
 

Thaeon

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Everyone who said their piece on this exchange was being a douche canoe about it. Don’t people know not to engage with Bach at this point? Trunk should keep his mouth shut when it comes to being a music performer. He’s not one. Radke should have just let it go. I’m not surprised the whole thing degenerated to a dick measuring contest with a former pro wrestler.
 

wheresthefbomb

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To which I would ask: why would someone pay to see a DJ “perform” live? I know they do, but why (serious question)?

If you just want to hang out and get high in a crowd, you don’t need a DJ for that.

Maybe he's more of an "electronic artist" than a "DJ" but I saw Com Truise and it was fucking lit. he had midi trigger pads and stuff though so it wasn't like he was "just pressing play," though I also question how often that's actually/only what happens.

On the other hand, when I saw Snoop he had no backing tracks and entire band with keys, guitar, bass, a full percussion section AND a trap kit drummer. This was in Alaska too, he could've rapped over tracks and we would've eaten it up but he put on a real live show. I have massive respect for him as a performer after that. Nappy Roots came up here around the same time and rapped over studio tracks and it sucked. They also had shit attitudes.
 


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