RAN guitars offline. Did they close? Update: Trouble Relocating

Discussion in 'Sevenstring Guitars' started by chopeth, Feb 16, 2019.

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  1. canuck brian

    canuck brian Bowes Guitars Contributor

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    I'm most definitely not going to pretend it didn't happen because i'm not stupid. I also wrote that "if you can't afford a PRS dragon, you shouldn't buy it, that's how capilism works." I was initially confused by the mindbendingly stupid rationale of saving for an expensive guitar removing the ability to buy cheap ones.

    The entitlement thing wasn't for you. :)
     
  2. canuck brian

    canuck brian Bowes Guitars Contributor

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    It's seriously something that we're going to very loudly disagree on man. I'm sorry. This really is one of those things where i'm going to be incredibly stubborn and mean so imma bow out before i piss more people off. :( This is one of those topics that puts me into the wall of text mode.

    There's another situation that really hits home for me on this - I've got ALL the files to make Decibel Javelin 6's and 7's. I know they work because we already made 9 bodies. I literally need to clamp a body blank to the table, put the tools in and hit go - voila - Decibel Javelins. There is no way in hell i'm even considering doing that though because i believe right down to my core that it's wrong. It's Darren's property, not mine, and I feel I have no right to use it or even build upon it. I seriously considered building one for myself at one point, but i think that would be bad form considering the whole situation.
     
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  3. Lemonbaby

    Lemonbaby SS.org Regular

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    Wow - is this discussion still going on? Just dropped by to see if there's "real news" (TM) on the original topic...
     
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  4. Ordacleaphobia

    Ordacleaphobia Shameless Contrarian

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    Wanting a product to exist =/= Feeling like said product should exist because you want it.
    I don't think most people feel entitled to their dream guitar.
    I think most people just really want it and if it's suddenly available, would probably be enthused about being able to purchase it.

    All I'm trying to say is that I don't think we disagree as aggressively as you think. I think you're assuming that I'm okay with things that I'm not and all I'm trying to do is make sure that you know exactly what it is that I'm saying.

    Assuming Darren doesn't have any of his designs protected, yes, you could do that, and it'd be poor form, I think. But not technically illegal, and since Darren isn't making guitars anymore and people like that design, I wouldn't be surprised if someone else in your situation would take the opportunity. There's unquestionably people out there that wouldn't have too hard of a time talking themselves into doing that, and while I wouldn't be a fan, I would kind of 'get' why they're doing it.
    And in this case, I think this is the part where we majorly disagree on, I wouldn't really fault the buyers too much. Again, I wouldn't be happy about seeing it happen, but I don't know if I would be offended, either. I'd probably think to myself that it's kind of in poor taste and just move on. But...it's not my world. I'm just some dude that likes guitars.

    If he does have his designs protected, that'd just be straight up illegal and I don't think anybody would support illegal replicas even if they weren't forgeries.
    Which- again; are never okay.
     
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  5. Slippery_Pete

    Slippery_Pete SS.org Regular

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    I mean, like, honestly you know, KL copied the body of an Explorer. Like for sure.
     
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  6. Demiurge

    Demiurge Intrepid Jackass

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    ^I think it works like satire- it's considered okay when you punch up. Rip a design for a more expensive guitar, you're feted for "refining" the design. Rip a design for a cheaper guitar, you're a dirty rotten scoundrel.
     
  7. Albake21

    Albake21 "Just get a used Ibanez Prestige."

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    Seriously, I don't want to go through these pages just to see if there is any new update since the Skervesen update. This thread pretty much has nothing to do with the actual topic anymore.
     
  8. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    But that is kinda the idea...

    Take thing and make it better: you've added value.

    Take thing and make it cheaper: you've made a profit.

    KL>Gibson value added

    Ran<KL in every way
     
  9. Demiurge

    Demiurge Intrepid Jackass

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    ^I can see that, but does adding value cancel-out the supposed ethical concern of using another's design?
     
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  10. sezna

    sezna undermotivated

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    Patent law generally thinks so, otherwise fields would never progress
     
  11. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    You don’t lose money because someone whose was never going to pay you for something buys a copy of something you sell. That’s not how that works.

    Sorry couldn’t read this thread anymore and let this stupidity continue.
     
  12. Demiurge

    Demiurge Intrepid Jackass

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    Perhaps I'll regret dragging my cocktail hour devil's advocacy out further, but I'll ask regarding guitars: is using more 'spensive woods & parts a design improvement?
     
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  13. sezna

    sezna undermotivated

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    we sure are lucky you put an end to it

    <opinion> perhaps not, but, is better quality? </opinion>
     
  14. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    I don’t care about copying. Ya’ll argue that until you’re blue in the face.

    Let’s have a concept of revenue that matches this century.
     
  15. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    That's why I just download all my movies and music. It's ethically fine because I was never going to pay them, but I want it, and the option is available to me, so voila.
     
  16. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    Of course your knee jerk reaction completely misses the point.

    You conflate a number of different issues, ethical, moral, economic because copying is an issue you feel very intensely about instead of something you actually understand.

    If you think copying or downloading music is morally wrong. That’s fine.

    But if you think that every downloaded song is loss revenue that’s insane.
     
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  17. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    I agree, and I don't disagree with that statement. But, for the sake of discussion in this thread, I think it's a bit off base. Whether someone is not ever going to buy something, provided it's value doesn't exceed their net worth, is something that's hard to clarify. If you concede that then the flood doors open to each person's individual self serving value judgements - "Yea! I was never going to buy any music, $10 an album is too much, but now that I have it I listen to it 100x a day!"
     
  18. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire unofficial sso pickup tester

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  19. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    Right, that’s saying you shouldn’t steal. That’s fine. My position on that in relationship to software and digital goods is a bit more complicated but I’ll agree that you generally shouldn’t steal.

    But in the case of downloading stuff, the perspective on the other side is exactly the same. Whether I never buy that album and listen to it never or steal it and listen to it 100 times the actual money the company would have received is still zero.

    That’s not to say that the internet and downloading hasn’t decreased music industry revenue across the board. It definitely has. But the reason for that is a lot more complicated then that they are losing a sale every time someone pirates an album.
     
  20. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    Why would you clamor for a lock on a self-sustaining topic of discussion? Just because it split off from the main topic? You'd rather not have any posts about either topic than see a thread bumped that you're not participating in? I'm always confused by this behavior.

    If anything just split into 2 threads.
     
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