Nintendo Switch 2

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TedEH

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StevenC said:
Ted I'm just taking the piss out of Sony's recent "develop live service games and erase any that don't immediately take off" strategy
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Fair. I've been filing it under the giant blanket of the Enshitification of Everything. I'm in no denial over my own company's contribution to overall enshitification.
 
lattjeful

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TedEH said:
But you don't need to be an insider to grasp that the same $60-80 game twenty years ago was made by a team of 12 in a year, but the equivalent $60-80 game today is made by hundreds of people over several years under very different standards and expectations. The product just isn't the same as it was.

For every "but they're selling so many now" there's an equivalent "but they're paying so many more people's salary with that". I view it the same way as food -> I would rather pay high prices or tip well to eat out so that the cook can be paid a living wage. In the same way that I'd rather pay a bit more for my entertainment so that the artists (and yes, I view them as artists) can make a living.

Is there the argument that a lot of that money gets funneled upwards and doesn't actually reach the individual contributors much of the time? Sure, depending on how you look at it. But that's a gripe with capitalism, not with this specific industry - bearing in mind that tech jobs generally do pay well, and that happy CEOs and happy shareholders means jobs security - which we're seeing pretty plainly right now with how much "restructuring" has been happening since the pandemic ramped down.

Nobody wants prices to go up, but the reality is that $100 isn't a lot of money anymore - and that same truth applies on both sides of the transaction.
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To be honest I think a lot of it too is due to Steam. I feel like the Steam sales, particularly a decade ago when they were offering genuinely killer deals, really ruined the value of proposition of games for a ton of people. Hell people just assume something will be cheaper on Steam. I’ve seen people say “Why would I buy Cyberpunk on Switch 2 for $70 when I can get it for way cheaper on Steam?”

…Ultimate Edition is actually more expensive on Steam than on consoles. Some people just see “Steam = good value, console = bad value.”
 
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TedEH

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lattjeful said:
To be honest I think a lot of it too is due to Steam. I feel like the Steam sales, particularly a decade ago when they were offering genuinely killer deals, really ruined the value of proposition of games for a ton of people. Hell people just assume something will be cheaper on Steam. I’ve seen people say “Why would I buy Cyberpunk on Switch 2 for $70 when I can get it for way cheaper on Steam?”
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"I'll wait for the sale" is sort of a meme at this point. You could put humble bundles in that pile too - giving people the impression that games were worth just a couple o' dollars, reinforcing the whole backlog thing.
 
lattjeful

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TedEH said:
"I'll wait for the sale" is sort of a meme at this point. You could put humble bundles in that pile too - giving people the impression that games were worth just a couple o' dollars, reinforcing the whole backlog thing.
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I get it, and I'm glad those things exist, but... selfishly, even as a hobbyist dev... these games take work. I know a lot of the money goes to the top brass, but I also wanna support the dev team for their work. I know people will downplay it by saying "The devs already got their money! The corporation is just greedy!" but like... that's just not how it works. Sure they got paid for the work they already put in, but how do you think they keep their jobs? Game dev is filled to the brim with crunch, crazy deadlines, long hours, etc. Bare minimum I think they should be able to keep their jobs and a roof over their head. They don't get that by the game flopping at launch.

People love to go on about how devs deserve better, how games are rushed, etc. until they have to pay full price for a game. Then it's "Why wouldn't I just wait for a sale?" They talk about the poor develops to make themselves look and feel good, but when it's time to put their money where their mouth is, they just sit on the sidelines and watch. But that's my hot take ig. (And also throwing the thread off topic.)
 
wankerness

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lattjeful said:
I get it, and I'm glad those things exist, but... selfishly, even as a hobbyist dev... these games take work. I know a lot of the money goes to the top brass, but I also wanna support the dev team for their work. I know people will downplay it by saying "The devs already got their money! The corporation is just greedy!" but like... that's just not how it works. Sure they got paid for the work they already put in, but how do you think they keep their jobs? Game dev is filled to the brim with crunch, crazy deadlines, long hours, etc. Bare minimum I think they should be able to keep their jobs and a roof over their head. They don't get that by the game flopping at launch.

People love to go on about how devs deserve better, how games are rushed, etc. until they have to pay full price for a game. Then it's "Why wouldn't I just wait for a sale?" They talk about the poor develops to make themselves look and feel good, but when it's time to put their money where their mouth is, they just sit on the sidelines and watch. But that's my hot take ig. (And also throwing the thread off topic.)
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I buy full price when it's a midsize developer I love (ex RGG with a lot of the mainline Yakuza games, Fromsoft when they make a game that isn't multiplayer-focused) or something that really sounds like a good game that is polished and is the kind of thing I want to see more of (ex GoW 2018/Ragnarok or Zelda TOTK) but when it comes to AAA MTX slop like Assassin's Creed games or anything that sounds like I'm unsure to love it and is from a huge dev like EA I'm not buying at full price.

But yeah the way things are going now with what Trump just did to Vietnam this afternoon 80-90 games in the US is a fantasy, we're looking at $120 games!
 
lattjeful

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wankerness said:
I buy full price when it's a midsize developer I love (ex RGG with a lot of the mainline Yakuza games, Fromsoft when they make a game that isn't multiplayer-focused) or something that really sounds like a good game that is polished and is the kind of thing I want to see more of (ex GoW 2018/Ragnarok or Zelda TOTK) but when it comes to AAA MTX slop like Assassin's Creed games or anything that sounds like I'm unsure to love it and is from a huge dev like EA I'm not buying at full price.

But yeah the way things are going now with what Trump just did to Vietnam this afternoon 80-90 games in the US is a fantasy, we're looking at $120 games!
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Yeah Ubisoft I wait for. No reason to buy at full price when they'll be $20 in a few months' time. (AC Shadows looks pretty solid though. Not amazing but it's a step up.) Same for the redone versions of Atlus games. I'll buy the OG release full price but your Persona 5 Royals, Shin Megami Tensei V Vengeances, etc. I wait for.
 
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