Nintendo Switch 2

[Alberto7]

This is corporate apologism and you see it all over certain subreddits (like the nintendo one in particular where it's fanboy central).

Back in the day the cartridges for games were a huge chunk of the cost. Cost of producing CDs was way, way lower, leading to a gigantic increase in profits once they switched from cartridges to CDs/DVDs. Digital is another GIGANTIC step down (no longer have to print manuals, ship out millions of copies to stores, give a percentage to retailers, etc). They just keep making it cheaper and cheaper to get the game to customers while cheerleaders will be like "BUT INFLATION! COST OF GAMES HASN'T KEPT UP WITH INFLATION, WE'RE RIPPING OFF THE GAME COMPANIES!" Well, game distribution expenses have also gone down astronomically! And sales have gone way up from what they were at 20 years ago, so that kind of cancels out the ballooning production budgets.

They just see inflation and think "yeah, i bet people will pay that!" and do it cause they can, not cause they need to. What they don't realize is inflation has gotten to the point where people have LESS money to spend on videogames, not more, cause salaries aren't going up with inflation.

Yeah, those are good points and show the other side of the coin. Be interesting to see a breakdown of this stuff (for someone ignorant of production distribution costs in the industry)

 

[StevenC]

Feel like we're not talking enough about online Download Play.

Edit: and the compatibility thing is basically just Labo that uses the console.

 

[ElysianGuitars]

The argument I've heard for this rapid price hike on videogames is that videogames were 60 USD for like, decades. Like, Ocarina of Time was $60 when it launched at the end of the 90s, but its development costs were only a fraction of what they were for a modern game like, say, Breath of the Wild. (Which was also $60 at launch.) With inflation, higher development costs, and markets that are pretty well saturated (virtually the entire world plays videogames nowadays, whereas it was still very much an expanding market back in the 90s and early 2000s), it makes sense that games are going up in price. Factor that everyone is losing their minds about politics nowadays and a potential huge crash in the economy, and everyone is wanting to cash in while they can.

Honestly, as crappy as it might be, it's probably just a matter of time before people get used to games costing $90-$100 and that becomes the new standard.

I'd sail the 7 seas again before I pay $90-100 for a game. Haven't done that in like 20 years, mostly thanks to Steam.

 

[ElysianGuitars]

Feel like we're not talking enough about online Download Play.

Edit: and the compatibility thing is basically just Labo that uses the console.

I'll have to look it up, I was working while watching the Direct.

 

[wankerness]

I'd sail the 7 seas again before I pay $90-100 for a game. Haven't done that in like 20 years, mostly thanks to Steam.

Good reason to preorder. The most easily hackable nintendo systems are always the launch versions.

 

[spudmunkey]

This is corporate apologism and you see it all over certain subreddits (like the nintendo one in particular where it's fanboy central).

Back in the day the cartridges for games were a huge chunk of the cost. Cost of producing CDs was way, way lower, leading to a gigantic increase in profits once they switched from cartridges to CDs/DVDs. Digital is another GIGANTIC step down (no longer have to print manuals, ship out millions of copies to stores, give a percentage to retailers, etc). They just keep making it cheaper and cheaper to get the game to customers while cheerleaders will be like "BUT INFLATION! COST OF GAMES HASN'T KEPT UP WITH INFLATION, WE'RE RIPPING OFF THE GAME COMPANIES!" Well, game distribution expenses have also gone down astronomically! And sales have gone way up from what they were at 20 years ago, so that kind of cancels out the ballooning production budgets.

They just see inflation and think "yeah, i bet people will pay that!" and do it cause they can, not cause they need to. What they don't realize is inflation has gotten to the point where people have LESS money to spend on videogames, not more, cause salaries aren't going up with inflation.

I don't mean to ask this question as a challenge to the above post, and I don't disagree...just trying to flesh out some context: the "OG" home consoles were sold for profit on their own. Even if you bought zero games, Nintendo, Sega, Atari, etc all made money on that singular purchase.

At some point, it became the norm for game consoles to be sold at a loss. I'm not sure if it started with the X-Box, but at least at launch, console companies lost money on the consoles with the intent of getting them into the hands of as many people as possible, to buy the software, to finally start making profits.

Is that the same scenario today?

 

[lattjeful]

I don't mean to ask this question as a challenge to the above post, and I don't disagree...just trying to flesh out some context: the "OG" home consoles were sold for profit on their own. Even if you bought zero games, Nintendo, Sega, Atari, etc all made money on that singular purchase.

At some point, it became the norm for game consoles to be sold at a loss. I'm not sure if it started with the X-Box, but at least at launch, console companies lost money on the consoles with the intent of getting them into the hands of as many people as possible, to buy the software, to finally start making profits.

Is that the same scenario today?

Nintendo has heart taken a loss on console sales. They’re the outlier here.

 

[spudmunkey]

Nintendo has heart taken a loss on console sales. They’re the outlier here.

Got it. Yeah, I probably should have googled first. I just saw that while they sold the WiiU and 3DS at a loss (at least at some point on their product cycle), that's been it.

 

[TedEH]

The physical packaging is not the only thing that has changes the cost of games - the actual development process is prolonged, the teams are bigger, the middleware and licensing is expensive, the products themselves are grander in scale and held to higher standard, the shift to online and service-based means that you have continuous instead of fixed costs, data centers to maintain, etc etc etc etc. The industry also has to cover for its flops and failures - from the Concord-esque screwups to cancelled projects you never heard about in the first place. It all costs money. Games are expensive. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's not just that inflation means that we're getting the "same" product for "less", you're getting much more product than you used to. When you stack that on top of a world where everything is getting expensive because of *gestures broadly*, it was inevitable.

I also kinda think that the industry's tendency to shoot itself in the foot in terms of perceived value - doing stuff like constant steep discounts and rushing products towards obsolescence.

 

[wankerness]

Speaking of inflation, our glorious leader just announced 24% tariffs on Japan and 46% on Vietnam (where switches are actually made, I think). Japan just agreed with China to do reciprocal tariffs on the US.

So, I think the console probably is going to increase at a bare minimum 150 dollars in the US, games probably at least 20. Have fun, all other countries! I am not buying anything other than actual essentials while these tariffs are in effect.

 

[gabito]

Nice show, nice announcements. The console price seems to be OK, I don’t care much about the hardware or performance as long as it runs the games somewhat decently (probably most people don’t care at all).

Regarding the games prices, it’s a good reason to wait for an emulator and just get the ROMs somewhere. It’s probably going to be released before Nintendo puts their games on sale

Ah, well, fuck corporations and fuck Nintendo and their scummy ways. But I’m human so I think I’ll eventually buy one of these things. The make nice games regardless.

 

[ElysianGuitars]

This is corporate apologism and you see it all over certain subreddits (like the nintendo one in particular where it's fanboy central).

Back in the day the cartridges for games were a huge chunk of the cost. Cost of producing CDs was way, way lower, leading to a gigantic increase in profits once they switched from cartridges to CDs/DVDs. Digital is another GIGANTIC step down (no longer have to print manuals, ship out millions of copies to stores, give a percentage to retailers, etc). They just keep making it cheaper and cheaper to get the game to customers while cheerleaders will be like "BUT INFLATION! COST OF GAMES HASN'T KEPT UP WITH INFLATION, WE'RE RIPPING OFF THE GAME COMPANIES!" Well, game distribution expenses have also gone down astronomically! And sales have gone way up from what they were at 20 years ago, so that kind of cancels out the ballooning production budgets.

They just see inflation and think "yeah, i bet people will pay that!" and do it cause they can, not cause they need to. What they don't realize is inflation has gotten to the point where people have LESS money to spend on videogames, not more, cause salaries aren't going up with inflation.

And the new "cartridges" are basically SD cards now. It's ridiculous. Storage has never been cheaper but we're still paying a premium.

 

[MetalDestroyer]

And the new "cartridges" are basically SD cards now. It's ridiculous. Storage has never been cheaper but we're still paying a premium.

counterpoint: boxed games are luxury goods for nerds who collect, not utility for the average gamer. I wouldn't be surprised if they start becoming more expensive than digital in the not too distant future

 

[wankerness]

counterpoint: boxed games are luxury goods for nerds who collect, not utility for the average gamer. I wouldn't be surprised if they start becoming more expensive than digital in the not too distant future

The problem with Nintendo is they always shutter their online storefronts so if they stop releasing physical games you will not be able to play them in the future. All my snes, GameCube, n64 games still work fine and still will if I get a replacement system. Junk I bought in the Wii eshop? That’s gone if my system croaks cause all records of the transaction and ability to redownload are gone.

As opposed to like, Xbox. I can still redownload all the shit I bought 15 years ago no problem, even on newer consoles (and in some cases on pc).

 

[StevenC]

The problem with Nintendo is they always shutter their online storefronts so if they stop releasing physical games you will not be able to play them in the future. All my snes, GameCube, n64 games still work fine and still will if I get a replacement system. Junk I bought in the Wii eshop? That’s gone if my system croaks cause all records of the transaction and ability to redownload are gone.

As opposed to like, Xbox. I can still redownload all the shit I bought 15 years ago no problem, even on newer consoles (and in some cases on pc).

Yeah but like that's assuming Xbox doesn't do away with their store and change to a new system.

Meanwhile Nintendo has just said everything you downloaded on Switch 1 will run on Switch 2, and it's the same shop.

I understand the sentiment, but your Xbox games are no safer. For now Switch games will last as long as Switch 2 at least, and we assume that they will continue that way as long as Nintendo is releasing hardware. Which is what we're also doing with Xbox and Sony.

My, maybe slightly homerist, opinion is that Nintendo has been really opposed to games as a service forever and they've been making these small concessions going forward. Cloud storage is a first for them last gen; migrating data to your new console is a first this gen, as is maintaining the same store and interface.

--

Also, Nintendo has announced a bunch of their games will get free performance patches. The only thing that will cost money is when there is new content. I find this reasonable for Kirby and Mario Party, but really hoping they don't screw us and lock the Zelda patches behind the map app.

 

[narad]

Umm that was fucking amazing.

It's like it was made specifically for me. Fucking Gamecube, fucking Air Riders, fucking DK Bananza, fucking Bloodborne 2, fucking Silksong.

I will pay for the Kirby upgrade as DLC, which is fine. I will not be happy if I have to pay for BotW and TotK to run better because that is bullshit.

Switch 2 already has more exclusives than PS5.

This is the most I've ever seen you swear. Ironic being for a fuckin G rated console

 

[StevenC]

This is the most I've ever seen you swear. Ironic being for a fuckin G rated console

You say that but this Direct was rated 18

 

[TedEH]

G rated console

I dunno when you last perused the eshop, but it's jam-packed with shovelware anime porn.

 

[narad]

I dunno when you last perused the eshop, but it's jam-packed with shovelware anime porn.

It's probably been five years, but doesn't nintendo have to approve of everything on the eshop?

 

[TedEH]

It's probably been five years, but doesn't nintendo have to approve of everything on the eshop?

I don't remember, maybe they do. But they've been allowing that content on their platforms for a long time. Nintendo hasn't been "for kids" for a long time.