NGD: Fractal FM3

[TheShreddinHand]

I'm sure it's covered in this thread guys so apologies for not searching all the way through it, but can a FM3 and a FC6 essentially do everything a FM9 can? Just 2 boxes instead of 1? Or is there something else missing that the FM9 would be able to do that the FM3+FC6 combo cannot?

EDIT: Disregard my post, I see the handy comparison on Fractal's website! Duh!

 

[Deadpool_25]

I'm sure it's covered in this thread guys so apologies for not searching all the way through it, but can a FM3 and a FC6 essentially do everything a FM9 can? Just 2 boxes instead of 1? Or is there something else missing that the FM9 would be able to do that the FM3+FC6 combo cannot?

EDIT: Disregard my post, I see the handy comparison on Fractal's website! Duh!

Yeah I’m guessing you see this but the FM9 is significantly more powerful in terms of CPU and having some additional blocks available (such as being able to use two amp blocks, two cab blocks, etc.).

 

[sevenfoxes]

Been spending quite a bit of time with the FM3, and it’s sounding better and better to me, probably because I am learning how to use it more efficiently and get the most out of it (still not using the app for the most part).

The EVH 5150 loop helps tremendously with getting a great tone right off the bat, as it’s one of the cleanest and clearest loops I’ve ever used. I wish all fx loops were this good.

But I’m liking the FM3 so much to the point where I am considering selling all of my tube amps (except for the EVH, obviously).

Before i do that I need to make sure that I’m totally happy with the models of my favorite amps. The Archon 50 is one of those amps that I haven’t been able to fully replicate on the FM3, but am hoping to closer and closer (same with the recto models).

@Deadpool_25 Have you tried to replicate your Tremoverb with the FM3? Had any luck? If so, would you mind sharing which amp model you’re using?

 

[laxu]

But I’m liking the FM3 so much to the point where I am considering selling all of my tube amps (except for the EVH, obviously).

Before i do that I need to make sure that I’m totally happy with the models of my favorite amps. The Archon 50 is one of those amps that I haven’t been able to fully replicate on the FM3, but am hoping to closer and closer (same with the recto models).

I think that's the wrong approach. It should not be "how can I replicate X amp that is not directly modeled?" but "can I use what is in there to get my absolute favorite tones?" In the amp block alone you can tweak advanced stuff if you want, you can choose from nearly 300 amp models, you can use input/output EQ to shape things up...there's just so many things you can do to get this where you like 'em.

My go-to tones are something like all eras of Gary Moore from blues to hard rock. One of my favorite models for that is the Cornford MK50 model on the Fractal. I have played the real amp and I would never buy it because it's expensive, heavy and way, way too loud to be practical for me. So this is a case of the model doing better than the real amp. On the flipside I've never played a real Dumble, I've never heard one played live. But I found I got some real nice tones out of the Fractal Dumble models. Are they accurate? I don't know, I just got results I liked.

So I suggest just changing your outlook on how you approach the thing.

 

[Deadpool_25]

Been spending quite a bit of time with the FM3, and it’s sounding better and better to me, probably because I am learning how to use it more efficiently and get the most out of it (still not using the app for the most part).

The EVH 5150 loop helps tremendously with getting a great tone right off the bat, as it’s one of the cleanest and clearest loops I’ve ever used. I wish all fx loops were this good.

But I’m liking the FM3 so much to the point where I am considering selling all of my tube amps (except for the EVH, obviously).

Before i do that I need to make sure that I’m totally happy with the models of my favorite amps. The Archon 50 is one of those amps that I haven’t been able to fully replicate on the FM3, but am hoping to closer and closer (same with the recto models).

@Deadpool_25 Have you tried to replicate your Tremoverb with the FM3? Had any luck? If so, would you mind sharing which amp model you’re using?

I have not tried to replicate the Tremoverb. I could give it a shot (remember, I’m on the FM9 now but that won’t matter) and certainly don’t mind doing so, but what mode on the amp are we talking about?



I have done some direct comparisons with amps in the past including the 6505 and EVH 50W 6L6. I’ve also tried to match the clean of my California Tweed and just kinda casually scoped out the difference between the EVH 100w models vs the real 50W amp.

Although I don’t love the initial “you’re doing it wrong” tone, @laxu (no offense) has a good point overall.

I have kinda dropped doing direct comparisons with the intent of matching an amp I have. I still like to see people do them for entertainment’s sake, but for my own use I kinda stopped that. The reason is that if I just plug into the FM9 and play almost any amp model (through the EVH as you know) I can get tones I at least really like, and often absolutely love. It’s independent from and comparison to real amps.

When I compared to the 50W blue I was like…yeah that’s the same sound. When I was trying to match the California Tweed—a model that’s not in the Fractal—I did some tweaking and quickly got pretty close using some input EQ. Then I found myself working for like 30 minutes to try to get the last little bit. Then it hit me: the model I had dialed it sounded just as good as the California Tweed—debatably better. It was slightly different but it was at least equally good to me. So why was I still tweaking?

We have this baked in idea that the real amp is just generally superior so we fight to make the models sound like the real amps. It’s completely understandable given the things themselves and where they evolved from, but if we can step away from that mentality it can be incredibly liberating. I know first hand though just how difficult it is to change your thinking and get to that place.

Edit: on matching the Archon 50, I don’t have any experience with that amp but, again with a nod to @laxu , try using some input EQ in the amp block. I find that’s a good place to start when kinda working towards making a model sound more like a real amp.

 

[sevenfoxes]

I have not tried to replicate the Tremoverb. I could give it a shot (remember, I’m on the FM9 now but that won’t matter) and certainly don’t mind doing so, but what mode on the amp are we talking about?



I have done some direct comparisons with amps in the past including the 6505 and EVH 50W 6L6. I’ve also tried to match the clean of my California Tweed and just kinda casually scoped out the difference between the EVH 100w models vs the real 50W amp.

Although I don’t love the initial “you’re doing it wrong” tone, @laxu (no offense) has a good point overall.

I have kinda dropped doing direct comparisons with the intent of matching an amp I have. I still like to see people do them for entertainment’s sake, but for my own use I kinda stopped that. The reason is that if I just plug into the FM9 and play almost any amp model (through the EVH as you know) I can get tones I at least really like, and often absolutely love. It’s independent from and comparison to real amps.

When I compared to the 50W blue I was like…yeah that’s the same sound. When I was trying to match the California Tweed—a model that’s not in the Fractal—I did some tweaking and quickly got pretty close using some input EQ. Then I found myself working for like 30 minutes to try to get the last little bit. Then it hit me: the model I had dialed it sounded just as good as the California Tweed—debatably better. It was slightly different but it was at least equally good to me. So why was I still tweaking?

We have this baked in idea that the real amp is just generally superior so we fight to make the models sound like the real amps. It’s completely understandable given the things themselves and where they evolved from, but if we can step away from that mentality it can be incredibly liberating. I know first hand though just how difficult it is to change your thinking and get to that place.

Edit: on matching the Archon 50, I don’t have any experience with that amp but, again with a nod to @laxu , try using some input EQ in the amp block. I find that’s a good place to start when kinda working towards making a model sound more like a real amp.

Thanks!

Either the Vintage or Modern mode, not too picky. So far I’ve only had success with getting the recto models on the FM3 to sound like a decent/good emulation.

I’ll spend some more time tweaking with it, but LMK if you make any discoveries, especially since we’re both using the same power amp.

Thanks again!

 

[Deadpool_25]

Thanks!

Either the Vintage or Modern mode, not too picky. So far I’ve only had success with getting the recto models on the FM3 to sound like a decent/good emulation.

I’ll spend some more time tweaking with it, but LMK if you make any discoveries, especially since we’re both using the same power amp.

Thanks again!

Ok. I’ll dial in the Tremoverb on both of those and then work a little with the FM9 through the EVH and see if I can get close.

 

[Deadpool_25]

Ok just spent a little time trying this out. I setup like this:

2018 Strandberg Fusion* > GigRig ABY
ABY A > FM9 > EVH 50w 6L6 Return > Custom 2x12 #1**

ABY B > Tremoverb input > Custom 2x12 #2**

* The Fusion has a Suhr SSH+ in the bridge. It’s like a hot PAF I think.
** The 2x12s are identical and both have a V30/Creamback mix

Experiment 1: Tremoverb Vintage High Gain

I set the Tremoverb to what I thought was a great hard rock to metal tone. It sounds great and isn’t flubby at all even without a boost. Such an awesome amp. Anyway…

Tremoverb settings:
- Vintage High Gain mode (on orange; no cloning)
- Silicon rectification
- Master 10:00 (it’s not as loud as you might expect)
- Presence 11:00
- Bass 9:30
- Mid 11:00
- Treble 1:00
- Gain 1:30

I tried a few of the Fractal Recto models but struggled until I got to Recto2 Red Vintage. The Recto1 and “Orange” models were overly bassy and didn’t have even close to enough gain or the right type of gain. Recto2 Red Vintage was a better starting point. I still ended up tweaking quite a bit (all from the front panel btw…I’m proud of myself).

FM9 Settings (listing changes only):

LAYOUT
- Input1 > Amp1 > Out1 (no tweaks to Input or Output blocks)


AMP BLOCK

Type Page
- Recto2 Red Vintage model

Tone Page
- Drive 7.53
- Bass 2.16
- Mid 1.31
- Treble 7.78
- Master 1.53
- Input trim 3.476
- Presence 5.25
- Level 2.8

Input EQ Page
- Low Cut 204.8

Output EQ Page
- 8 Band Const Q
- 62 @ 2.4
- 125 @ -0.60
- 250 @ -1.13
- 500 @ -3.82
- 1000 @ 1.94
- 2000 @ 0.77
- 4000 @ 0.98
-8000 @ 0.26

Preamp Page
- Input boost on
- Boost Type Super OD
- Boost level 12.00
- Sat switch On (Ideal)
- Sat drive 3.170

Power Amp page
- Power amp modeling off

That’s it for matching the Tremoverb’s Vintage High Gain mode. The amp and the tweaked model sound incredibly similar. I suppose I could maybe get even a touch closer with a little more EQ because I think I hear some suuuuuper small differences, but I’m actually not sure. I tilt my head a little and they sound exactly the same. It’s there imo.

The biggest thing I noticed was the gain—the amp has a lot more than this model. At first I tried just cranking the gain on the amp but the low end got a bit funky. It wasn’t bad, it just didn’t really get me closer to the tone of the amp. Also the model had a lot more low end in general than the amp. So I ended up adding a low cut, turning on the Input Boost (Super OD), turning up the input drive, and turning on the Sat switch and goosing it a hair. Then I adjusted the output EQ a jar for fine tuning. This all kind of surprised me a little, but I’m working with a model that is not designed to be the same as the real amp in this case. Maybe the Recto2 Red Modern might’ve been a better choice. I may check that out for a sec before I check out and try to match the Modern High Gain mode, but I don’t really need to—I definitely feel like I pretty much nailed it well enough already.

Note: I just noticed my output mode is set to FRFR. Interesting! I will have to experiment because that’s not supposed to be the best choice for my setup into a tube power amp and real cab. Still…it sounds awesome so I’ll only be experimenting for the hell of it.

I’ll work on Modern High Gain next.

Important Edit:
I forgot, I have some global EQ.

Type - Graphic
31 @ -11.10
63 @ -4.25
125 @ -0.40
8k @ -2.63
16k @ -6.15

All else at 0.00

 

[Deadpool_25]

Experiment 2: Modern High Gain

Additional note also applicable to the above post: The Tremoverb’s power section is set to Bold.

I did a quick dialing in for what I felt was a pretty good modern high gain sound.

Tremoverb settings:
- Modern High Gain mode (on red; no cloning)
- Silicon rectification
- Master 9:00
- Presence 9:00
- Bass 10:00
- Mid 11:45
- Treble 12.15
- Gain 12:00

This time I went straight to Recto2 Red Modern. Again I felt like it was seriously lacking in gain compared to the amp, but overall it seemed much easier to dial this one in.

AMP BLOCK

Type Page
- Recto2 Red Modern

Tone Page
- Drive 6.75
- Bass 6.68
- Mid 4.16
- Treble 6.80
- Master 2.00
- Input Trim 1.723
- Presence 6.83
- Level 3.3 (output 1 knob on top panel is at 12:15 btw)

Input EQ Page
- No changes

Output EQ
- 8 Band Var Q (didn’t change it)
- 62 @ 4.34
- 125 @ 1.69
- 250 @ -0.86
- 500 @ -1.94
- 1000 @ -0.98
- 2000 @ 0.96
- 4000 @ 2.71
- 8000 @ 1.58

Preamp Page
- Input boost on
- Boost type Super Od
- Boost level 12.00
- Sat switch on
- Sat drive 3.910

Power Amp Page
- Power amp modeling off


That’s it. Sounds great and pretty much exactly like the amp.

In either case, I won’t say the model sounds 100% like the amp because I could probably nitpick it if I really tried, but listening at least somewhat critically I’d say there’s no significant difference. If I turned around and played and someone else switched between them I’d be hard pressed to identify which is which with any accuracy and if I was able to select a preference I have no idea which it would be—my guess is it would change back and forth every few minutes.

An interesting point here is that because the real amp is on, the noise from its cab is still audible when I switch to the model which has zero noise. That would make it hard to say which is which. But I like that the model is absolutely silent on its own.

 

[Deadpool_25]

I’m a little curious about the difference in gain. It’s so apparent that I wonder if I have a global setting I’m not seeing or am forgetting about. I looked through a bit and didn’t see anything. I need to look again as that seems strange.

That’s one thing I like about using real amps and pedals. They’re usually so simple you never really have question if there’s something going on that you’re missing. Conversely I can make changes on the Fractal that, if I was using a real amp, would require outboard gear or outright amp mods. The bottom like is, as most of us know, real amps are easier to use but modelers are waaaay more versatile if you’re willing to put in a little time tweaking them.

 

[budda]

Might just need more master volume in the FM9? Check Yek’s guide?

 

[MatrixClaw]

Thanks!

Either the Vintage or Modern mode, not too picky. So far I’ve only had success with getting the recto models on the FM3 to sound like a decent/good emulation.

I’ll spend some more time tweaking with it, but LMK if you make any discoveries, especially since we’re both using the same power amp.

Thanks again!

The Rev G model sounded so close to my tremoverb that I sold it. I was A/Bing them one day and the differences were so small that if I was blindfolded, there's no way I could've picked the real amp out over the model. The controls were not 1:1 though. I remember I had to push the master on the FM3 model much higher.

 

[Shask]

The Rev G model sounded so close to my tremoverb that I sold it. I was A/Bing them one day and the differences were so small that if I was blindfolded, there's no way I could've picked the real amp out over the model. The controls were not 1:1 though. I remember I had to push the master on the FM3 model much higher.

Playing the Axe through what?

 

[Deadpool_25]

Might just need more master volume in the FM9? Check Yek’s guide?

I went and looked back at that again and I don’t think that’s accounting for the huge difference in gain. It might be making a slight difference though.

 

[sevenfoxes]

I’m a little curious about the difference in gain. It’s so apparent that I wonder if I have a global setting I’m not seeing or am forgetting about. I looked through a bit and didn’t see anything. I need to look again as that seems strange.

That’s one thing I like about using real amps and pedals. They’re usually so simple you never really have question if there’s something going on that you’re missing. Conversely I can make changes on the Fractal that, if I was using a real amp, would require outboard gear or outright amp mods. The bottom like is, as most of us know, real amps are easier to use but modelers are waaaay more versatile if you’re willing to put in a little time tweaking them.

You rock, man! Thanks a ton for taking the time to do that. Seriously looking forward trying out those settings.

 

[sevenfoxes]

The Rev G model sounded so close to my tremoverb that I sold it. I was A/Bing them one day and the differences were so small that if I was blindfolded, there's no way I could've picked the real amp out over the model. The controls were not 1:1 though. I remember I had to push the master on the FM3 model much higher.

That’s awesome. I think i remember you saying that when you sold it.

But which one is the Rev G model on the FM3?

 

[Deadpool_25]

That’s awesome. I think i remember you saying that when you sold it.

But which one is the Rev G model on the FM3?

I believe the Recto1 model is based on a Rev F (according to Yek’s guide) so if either was Rev G it would likely be the Recto2, but I think that’s actually based on a newer 3 channel. I feel like Cliff said that in an old post on the fractal forum.

 

[Deadpool_25]

You rock, man! Thanks a ton for taking the time to do that. Seriously looking forward trying out those settings.

My pleasure man. I’m glad I did because I now have a couple recto tones dialed in that are pretty awesome. I’ll save them to the block library and use them in the future.

And don’t forget to check out my global EQ settings I posted. You’ll need to at least account for those in the amp’s output EQ if your global EQ is flat/different.

 

[MatrixClaw]

Playing the Axe through what?

I like it the most through my 44 Magnum power amp and a cab, but I usually play through a PowerCab Plus, because it's most convenient. I've tried it through the power amp of a few of my tube amps and it sounds good that way but kinda defeats the purpose of the FM3 to me, which is to replace a tube head. I'd love to get a dedicated tube power amp for it at some point, but I'm in no rush considering the results I've gotten with solid state power.

 

[MatrixClaw]

That’s awesome. I think i remember you saying that when you sold it.

But which one is the Rev G model on the FM3?

The Recto 1 is the one I used. Maybe it's a Rev F? I assumed it was a G.