New Tool Songs

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by Boofchuck, May 6, 2019.

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  1. GunpointMetal

    GunpointMetal SS.org Regular

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    I don't know about radio-friendly, but to me Lateralus and 10,000 Days didn't even feel like "songs". It was like listening to someone who was building music on a looper, then left the looper on for 5 extra minutes after they finished adding parts to the song. I really, really liked TOOL back in Aenima/Lateralus days, but I honestly think it was just because I hadn't heard much for actual prog music at that point. I hope everyone that's been waiting gets what they want out of it.
     
  2. cardinal

    cardinal F# Dive Bomber

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    Yeah, that pretty much nails it. Tools later albums are filled with cool licks and I get that the artistic vision probably is to take an idea and slowly build it up over the course of several minutes, but man... I just prefer listening to a "song" like their earlier compositions. But maybe to them that's boring and too formulaic.
     
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  3. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    Wait, what? How the F is something like Parabola or Schism less of a "song" than one of their earlier radio songs like say, Eulogy? They have verse/chorus, they have hooks, they build and release, they have great bridges/climaxes, etc. Or is that just one of those nebulous criticisms that people throw out there that sound like an intellectual justification of why you just don't like something that doesn't actually bear scrutiny?

    Of course, Triad could have been constructed on a looper! I can't say I really remember most of 10,000 days so maybe you have something more there apart from the singles.
     
  4. cardinal

    cardinal F# Dive Bomber

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    Relax man! These are generalizations. My opinion simply is that I prefer the tighter/more-focused structure of the songs in general on some of their earlier albums. The Pot compared to Rosetta Stoned is an example of what I mean on 10,000 Days. Both are cool, but The Pot composition is just more radio friendly and more of a stereotypical rock "song," and I much prefer that. You can like whatever you like; I'm certainly not criticizing you if you prefer something else.

    There is a lot of things I like on Lateralus and 10,000 days (The Grudge, The Patient, Parabola, The Pot). Eulogy is one of my fav songs but the two minutes of "tink tink tink" at the beginning is annoying to me.
     
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  5. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    Oh, I wasn't insulted, I was just like "what the hell are these dudes saying the new albums don't have any 'songs' like the old ones?" Your clarified opinion, anyway, seems to be "they have songs on both the new and old and I like those more than the meandering things." Which, yeah, I can get behind. The original was worded as if there were none at all and they'd disappeared with Lateralus. Maybe the other guy thinks that.

    The song structures are simpler on the old ones, I just find what's on there almost completely uninspired in comparison. Actually now that I think about it, I'm unsure if I've ever heard Undertow apart from "Sober," so maybe I'm wrong and that one's much more intricate than Aenima.
     
  6. cardinal

    cardinal F# Dive Bomber

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    And I think that's the other side of the coin. The trend I think is that their newer compositions are more complex, and for the band (and many fans) I can see that maybe that's considered more fun and artistic; a form that's better able to communicate a deeper and more meaningful expression as opposed to verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus. I can see how that could be confining and uninspiring. But the flip side is that to forcing a song into that structure forces the song to become focused and maybe more driven from start to finish.

    There's no right or wrong. I just do have my preferences, and as much as I think Tool is a great band, I am just bummed that they seem to be moving away from my preference. But I'm just one dumb guy typing on the internet. They are one of the greatest (IMHO) rock bands going.
     
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  7. jco5055

    jco5055 SS.org Regular

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    Man I'll be honest the new songs aren't like blowing me away (but you can argue the sound quality etc doesn't do it justice), but man Lateralus (the song) is just perfect imo, with Aenema also up there.

    Not to mention every time I listen to TOOL I really get the urge to take up drums because of Danny Carey, idk there's something about the way he plays in particular that really makes me want to drum...I even bought a practice set just to try years ago and quit after some months so you'd say that shows drumming is not for me but again when I listen to TOOL...
     
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  8. GunpointMetal

    GunpointMetal SS.org Regular

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    They do have songs on both of those albums that are decent. I just don't think that slowly developing more-or-less the same riff over and over and over again is very entertaining for me anymore. If you're not actively listening to every single little percussion intricacy on the last two albums, they are kinda boring apart from a few songs, or parts of songs, IMO, of course. But since I was really into Tool my tastes have moved more towards stuff like Car Bomb or Black Matter Device, and those bands fit as much "music" into a verse/chorus as (IMO, of course) Tool would fit into a 7 minute song. I still jam Aenima from time to time because to me, that was the peak of their songwriting. They have the builds and climaxes and releases, they have the plodding, slow progressions, but they do it with what seems like intention. The later stuff the intention feels like, to me, to see how long someone will put up with the same part before it changes. Which I can appreciate from a player/performer perspective, but not so much as a casual listener that is no longer a mega-fan. There's probably a reason to not remember most of 10,000 days...if you left it on to do the dishes or something you might thing it was just one long song.
     
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  9. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    I really only checked out Lateralus because I loved APC's first album so much, and Lateralus came out shortly after. When it sounded nothing like my terrible memories of Aenima, I was thrilled. So, I guess I sort of approached them as a whole different band than people who got into them with the first two albums. Makes sense, as APC - Mer Des Noms definitely had an arty prog sound to it, and Lateralus was kind of the darker, more technical side of that.
     
  10. synrgy

    synrgy Ya ya ya I am Lorde

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    Other way around, actually.

    Average runtime of all the songs on Opiate was roughly 4 minutes, and the format was as you'd expect from that runtime and era. That ticked up a little on Undertow, where they averaged 5-ish minutes, but compositionally/structurally speaking, the extra length didn't add anything of substance. Not counting the 'skits', the average length ticked up again for Aenima, but the style changed, too: Aenima was - IMHO - their first earnest step into new, genuinely-original territory, and I think that may be at the root of its sustained popularity. Speaking only for my personal experience, I was so in love with it at the time that I set a bar Lateralus was simply never going to clear, so it was - inevitably - a mild disappointment for me. I kinda justify my bias by observing that there was a further stylistic change between Aenima and Lateralus (and yet another uptick in average song length), the latter just not being 'my style' as much as the former. I've long said that I feel like Aenima had more heart, and Lateralus had more brain. I'm more of a 'heart guy' - whom, to be clear, holds nothing against 'brain guys'.

    Longer isn't inherently better. I like things to happen in the music I listen to. If an actual, full minute or three goes by before anything happens, well.. That's meditation music, more or less - which is fine, but it's not what I'm generally after in my casual listening pursuits. (And at this stage of my life, casual listening is all I've got left; it's been decades since I could just sit down and experience and/or scrutinize an entire album in one session.) By 10,000 days, I guess I kinda felt like they were phoning it in, and maybe that's not fair, but music is a subjective experience, and I can only feel what I feel.

    After roughly 30 seconds of a looped riff, I find I'm skipping ahead to see what else the song has to offer. If/when those skips reveal something of interest, I'll usually go back to get everything in-context, but with the latest song posted in OP, I didn't find anything of interest during those skips; just sounded like - as others have said - leftovers from prior albums.

    *edit* Oh, and it reminded me, too, of how disappointing I find them to be as a live act, though I recognize that places me in the minority. It's kind of the same issue; I like things to happen, but they're like statues on stage.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
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  11. MerlinTKD

    MerlinTKD EIght.Fold.Path / Hinge Theory Contributor

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    Drummers who hear Danny Carey play feel the exact same way, I promise you :D
     
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  12. cardinal

    cardinal F# Dive Bomber

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    I know nothing about drumming, but Danny Carey and Mario Duplantier just knock my socks off. I love to really focus on what they are doing; just great stuff.
     
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  13. Strobe

    Strobe SS.org Regular

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    I totally get where you are coming from. We probably differ in that Lateralus is actually my favorite album and I have been a fan since the early 90's. I think you are on to something with their earlier stuff being more song driven and their later stuff being more of a complex musical tapestry (my words) perhaps at some expense to being just a sweet jam. I just like the really proggy out there stuff, and came to listen to Maynard's other projects for more traditional song structures.

    We probably prefer opposite albums, but I respect that.
     
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  14. Chris Bowsman

    Chris Bowsman SS.org Regular

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    I had tickets to go see Tool way back when. Pretty sure some oddball Swedish band called Meshuggah was opening.

    Show was cancelled, as it was on September 12, 2001.
     
  15. coreysMonster

    coreysMonster So long, Germany!

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    What a crazy name, those guys will never be popular.
     
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  16. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    I'm so old school 7-stringer that I was almost more interested in the novelty of seeing Meshuggah open for them than seeing Tool, even though I liked Lateralus by that time. I expected it would just be a bunch of stoner douches (the primary Tool fan demographic at my school - "dude they have FIBONACCI NUMBERS dude DANNY CAREY IS OBJECTIVELY BETTER THAN MOZART") booing them, though, and the tickets were too expensive for 17 year old me, so I skipped it. I doubt that's actually what happened to Meshuggah, but I always wondered.
     
  17. Boofchuck

    Boofchuck SS.org Regular

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    Oh man that's awful! I got to see Meshuggah and tool a few days apart a couple years ago in Denver and it was such a great experience. Although I will say I much preferred Meshuggah's show. The venue was really intimate and everyone there felt like die hard fans. Tool was at the Pepsi center, people seemed apathetic and the venue was just way too big to me. But I'm also a mountain hermit.
     
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  18. synrgy

    synrgy Ya ya ya I am Lorde

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    Pretty well sums up my experience of seeing them live.
     
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  19. Ralyks

    Ralyks The One Who Knocks Contributor

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    I mean, considering Bill Hicks opened for Tool on tour and he's samples in the intro to Third Eye...
     
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  20. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    Really? Gross. He’s got to be the most overrated comedian of all time by a certain type of person. I listened to a few of his albums a lot of times but eventually realized there were no jokes, it was almost entirely just him complaining about things and if you agreed with him you might say he was a good comedian. Ex, lots of political material, or hilarious bits like Milli Vanilli should be dead and Jimi Hendrix was so awesome he played guitar with his cock. That third eye bit (if the Tool song samples what I think it might) is one of the most unintentionally cringey things I’ve ever heard! His stuff is almost never funny, ever, it just gives many people a smug sense of superiority. I think the closest thing to a funny joke he ever had was the bit about hooligans overturning dustbins.

    Oh, I will cop to quoting his “we got ourselves a reader!” bit. That’s a very good story/line for highlighting how us nerds feel in truck stops down south!
     
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