My accidental 7 String scale length experiment with a twist ending

[Utkarsh Mohan]

If you'd bothered to watch even 2 seconds of the video, you'd have probably guessed he can easily afford that guitar.

Thanks man. Easily afford may be a bit generous though. I squirrel away best I can

 

[Utkarsh Mohan]

you'd probably love their multiscale 7

not that much into multi-scales really. Am avoiding them actively as that would open a whole new door. I thought I was done with getting guitars two years ago and I discovered 7 string which started a whole new obsession (and hole in the wallet)

 

[Rocka Rolla]

I constantly hear people say that 26.5" is the "perfect" scale for a 7 or all the benefits of a 26.5"' or a 27" baritone scale but if you're playing in B standard/drop A you don't need to go longer than 25.5". If anything, the longer scale can have a negative affect on the other 6 strings if you're not tuning way down.

 

[Grindspine]

As much as members here scoffed that a PRS guitar of the month 8 string was a mere 26.5", I had a chance to play one and was absolutely blown away by the playability down to F#.

I own two PRS guitars and keep them at E and Eb, sticking to Ibanez for my seven stringers mostly, but precision tolerances and decent factory setup can definitely have a guitar playing better than average specs would have you believe.

 

[Hollowway]

I personally think it’s weird that we even talk about scale lengths as being good or bad with respect to the distance between frets. The fret spread going from 25.5 to 27 is nearly negligible. It’s one fret difference, so I think it’s difficult to say one is “better” than the other. For 7 strings, I’ll buy them in virtually any scale length, because it’s really hard to tell the difference when actually playing.

 

[Rocka Rolla]

I personally think it’s weird that we even talk about scale lengths as being good or bad with respect to the distance between frets. The fret spread going from 25.5 to 27 is nearly negligible. It’s one fret difference, so I think it’s difficult to say one is “better” than the other. For 7 strings, I’ll buy them in virtually any scale length, because it’s really hard to tell the difference when actually playing.

If you compare a typical Gibson to a typical Fender whose scale lengths are only 3/4 of an inch apart, I think most would acknowledge there's a difference. Sure, it's minor but it does affect things like bending, fretting chords, etc... Going from 25.5" to 27" is literally twice that. You wouldn't play a 6 string baritone in standard tuning, so why do the same on a 7 if you play in B standard or drop A? If you want more tension on the B you can just use a thicker string. Again, I think 26.5"/27"are great if you're tuning lower which is why most manufacturers ship them that way from the factory.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Zakk Wylde plays Crazy Horse on a Les Paul basically and that song is in Drop A so it's all about technique.

It helps that he's only dropping down the lowest string to A. He tunes the rest of the guitar to standard D. Zakk doesn't like tune down crazy low so he just gets away with dropping the low string when he goes below C tuning.

 

[Emperoff]

I personally think it’s weird that we even talk about scale lengths as being good or bad with respect to the distance between frets. The fret spread going from 25.5 to 27 is nearly negligible. It’s one fret difference, so I think it’s difficult to say one is “better” than the other. For 7 strings, I’ll buy them in virtually any scale length, because it’s really hard to tell the difference when actually playing.

As much as this seems sensible on paper, I'm sure we all agree that a 1mm difference on neck thickness is a big deal. Same in pickup distance to the strings, or string spacing. My 46,5mm nut guitar feels considerably narrower than my 48mm nut guitars. And so on.

The fret distance between 25.56 to 27" might not seem a big deal, but the tension increase is a massive deal. There's no way I'd put 010s on my baritones for my playstyle. I find the increased distance between frets is most noticeable when doing slides since everything is further away than what you're used to.

26,5" scale is pretty great as an all rounder assuming you use lighter strings. I use to run a 0095-058 setup and it worked great, but not many string brands do "in-between" gauges.

 

[Hollowway]

As much as this seems sensible on paper, I'm sure we all agree that a 1mm difference on neck thickness is a big deal. Same in pickup distance to the strings, or string spacing. My 46,5mm nut guitar feels considerably narrower than my 48mm nut guitars. And so on.

The fret distance between 25.56 to 27" might not seem a big deal, but the tension increase is a massive deal. There's no way I'd put 010s on my baritones for my playstyle. I find the increased distance between frets is most noticeable when doing slides since everything is further away than what you're used to.

26,5" scale is pretty great as an all rounder assuming you use lighter strings. I use to run a 0095-058 setup and it worked great, but not many string brands do "in-between" gauges.

Yeah, I know tension increases, but I assume that when one changes scale length or tuning that they'll adjust the string gauge for tension. I more mean that if you're playing a pull off from 15th fret to 12th fret at 25.5", and then try it at 27" the difference is negligible in terms of distance. I see a lot of threads where people worry about if they'll be able to adapt to playing lead on a 27" guitar, and I think it's not even worth thinking about. The only place where a longer scale really matters is in the lower frets, and only when the scale increase is substantial. On the other hand, like you say, a millimeter or two at the nut DOES make a big difference. It might just be me, but I feel that a scale length of 25, 25.5, 26.5, 27 are all manageable for soloing on the higher frets. I just can't imagine someone wouldn't be able to adapt. But maybe it's just me.

 

[Winspear]

I personally think it’s weird that we even talk about scale lengths as being good or bad with respect to the distance between frets. The fret spread going from 25.5 to 27 is nearly negligible. It’s one fret difference, so I think it’s difficult to say one is “better” than the other. For 7 strings, I’ll buy them in virtually any scale length, because it’s really hard to tell the difference when actually playing.

Yes! I find it extremely strange. We don't talk about how much harder certain licks and things are to play just one or two frets lower.
I know nut reach definitely does impact the feel of the size of a guitar a lot though. But as for the upper frets I couldn't give a damn. I do notice the difference with bending though (even with matched tension) about how shorter strings respond better.

 

[Emperoff]

Yeah, I know tension increases, but I assume that when one changes scale length or tuning that they'll adjust the string gauge for tension. I more mean that if you're playing a pull off from 15th fret to 12th fret at 25.5", and then try it at 27" the difference is negligible in terms of distance. I see a lot of threads where people worry about if they'll be able to adapt to playing lead on a 27" guitar, and I think it's not even worth thinking about. The only place where a longer scale really matters is in the lower frets, and only when the scale increase is substantial. On the other hand, like you say, a millimeter or two at the nut DOES make a big difference. It might just be me, but I feel that a scale length of 25, 25.5, 26.5, 27 are all manageable for soloing on the higher frets. I just can't imagine someone wouldn't be able to adapt. But maybe it's just me.

Try playing Tornado of Souls solo on longer scale lengths

But yeah, I don't really give a damn about increased fret distance either. But string tension is a very big deal to me. It's not that easy to adapt string gauges since they are very limited. For example, a 010 on 25,5" is not going to feel the same than a 009,5 at 26," or even 27" (I know because I do try to adjust mine to those differences). The difference itself might not be a huge deal, but having to switch string brands or models to be able to match them (due to the lack of variety) sucks big time.

I'm stuck with D'addarios on my baritones because of that, and that makes me play them a loooot less than my guitars with Elixirs. No way I'm paying 20$ for a NYXL set that lasts a month.

 

[Hollowway]

Try playing Tornado of Souls solo on longer scale lengths

But yeah, I don't really give a damn about increased fret distance either. But string tension is a very big deal to me. It's not that easy to adapt string gauges since they are very limited. For example, a 010 on 25,5" is not going to feel the same than a 009,5 at 26," or even 27" (I know because I do try to adjust mine to those differences). The difference itself might not be a huge deal, but having to switch string brands or models to be able to match them (due to the lack of variety) sucks big time.

I'm stuck with D'addarios on my baritones because of that, and that makes me play them a loooot less than my guitars with Elixirs. No way I'm paying 20$ for a NYXL set that lasts a month.

Yeah, it's true that there isn't really a good solution to strings. I'm sure it's impractical, but it would be super cool if there were a brand that would do every possible string diameter, like 8.5, 9, 9.5, 10, 10.5, 11, 11.5, 12, 12.5, etc. There are some that get close, but then start skipping intervals as the gauges get thicker. So we always have to hunt.

 

[CanserDYI]

Also, neck thickness can make the stretches worse, for example, my experience with SLS schecter necks , they extremely hurt my wrist playing down in the 0-4 fret area and doing runs and things, and those are 26.5, but Ibanez's 27 inch necks don't hurt me at all, which baffled me. Not saying the SLS necks are bad or anything, just different geometry that your hand might like, might not.

 

[bostjan]

The ergonomics boil down to the sum of all aspects of the instrument.

I have a Dingwall NG-2 that is way more ergonomic than my Brice 53437, even though they are identical scale lengths. It's just about where the neck's center of gravity is, the shape of the neck, the way the body counterbalances, etc.

If you take a crumby Danelectro baritone where they just slap a longer neck on an older design and call it a baritone, it's going to feel weird to play. Your fretting hand is going to feel like it's a mile away from your body, your wrist angle is going to be awkward, and even a one fret stretch feels bad. Then you take something like an Oni (or any well-engineered design), where the bridge sits back farther, the center of mass is shifted to keep the headstock reasonably close, and the neck has a comfortable profile, and it feels virtually the same whether the scale length is 24" or 28".

I mean this same principle applied to literally every manually operated object where some manufacturers consider ergonomics and others don't- a computer mouse, a keyboard, the other sort of keyboard, a bow and arrow, a kitchen knife, a baseball bat, whatever...

 

[Rev2010]

- A lot of what we expect specs to do is pyschosomatic. If I had not done my experiments in G, I would still have thought the guitar was 26.5. While this of course is a PRS Private Stock, with the highest grade of craftsmanship possible, which does help pull off a small scale 7 string( A lot like 7.25 inch radius can only be pulled off with high manufacturing precision), it does show that it is not only possible, it is optimal

- Realistically, unless you are tuning below Ab, there is no need to get anything beyond a 25.5inch scale 7 string, especially if you generally use the full fretboard including leads. In my opinion, a 26.5 inch would definitely be 'better' for tight low B chugging, but for every other use, a smaller scale length would be just be better. Easier to play lead. Easier to stretch for chords. You get the picture.

Sorry but I have to disagree with both of these points. Certain specs do indeed make differences. In this case a longer scale length will give noticeably more accurate intonation at A Standard tuning than a 25" scale will. A shorter scale will also require thicker strings to maintain the same desired tension which will also have a negative effect on accurate intonation. If you're staying in B standard then intonation isn't as much an issue. Then there's a noticeable tonal difference.

But specs can and do make differences. Stainless steel frets will last significantly longer than nickel frets is another example, nothing psychosomatic about it. While I don't agree with tone woods and wouldn't reject a guitar simply cause of the body wood to some it makes a difference due to the weight. Guitar weight is a very important factor for many people hence why some only go with lighter woods.

Sure there's always some psychosomatic effects, even just the brand name alone. Just saying don't be too quick to discount real world differences due to specs.