Maybe too early in the game, comparing the GARGOYLE to Fortin's MESHUGGAH sig

Discussion in 'Gear & Equipment' started by oniduder, May 15, 2019.

  1. oniduder

    oniduder HONKEY DONKEY

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    i doubt it, but i would like to know if anybody's A) has the limited run meshuggah (cough cough, there's only 100 or somehting, and a few have been sold (literally up to 7?)) and been able to A/B it with the gargoyle, owww ahhh, good luck gear fucks

    seriously though, any real real difference, i know some peeps in here build clones and would say there almost couldn't be that big a difference

    so words below this post would be awesome sauce!
     
  2. Taylor2

    Taylor2 Do you even lift

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    There's a post in here somewhere about the Gargoyle and according to FourT6and2 (I think that's his name), it has some minor design changes from the Meshuggah. That said, the original Meshuggah design is based off of the modded JCM circuit, and so overall it's probably going to be close, but not exact. But, given the price and the quality of the Ceriatone stuff, you can't really go wrong.
     
  3. oniduder

    oniduder HONKEY DONKEY

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    i believe that was the jist of it, and i do remember either talking directly with that handle or someone else who builds clones himself

    thanks, this thread is probably a bit if not completely unnecessary

    thanks nonetheless

    it's interesting to think that what meshuggah needed in their tone was some modded marshall sound, that's what they've truly been after over the course of their 30 some odd career, i call who gives a fuck almost anything would probably work with the right boost

    seriously a boost can make a heaping dogshit crate sound like the brootz or whatever the kids are saying these days
     
  4. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    Are they using Fortin boosts in front of their sig amps? I should check out Thorendal’s signal chain. Fortin has so many boosts I’m not sure what is actually being used by Meshuggah now that they have the Meshuggah amp.
     
  5. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    Meshuggah are boosting their amps with the 33 most of the time live.
     
  6. cardinal

    cardinal F# Dive Bomber

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    It's been said that the Gargoyle is very similar to the Chupacabra. I think on Rig-Talk, @FourT6and2 has even identified the specific component changes between the amps:

    1. Change first two cathode resistors to 2K7
    2. Swap the first two coupling caps around
    3. Lower first plate resistor to 330K... or a 100K bypassed with 330pF in series with 220K
    4. Revert the rest of the circuit back to STOCK Marshall specs (tone stack, PI, NFB, remove depth control, add the missing 10K B+ dropper, etc.)
    5. Change the "feel" push/pull control's resistor to 68K and change the V1b input grid resistor to 68K

    So maybe search out reviews/opinions on the Chupacabra 50?
     
  7. USMarine75

    USMarine75 Contributor

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    So my question is... which sounds better? I'm a big believer that anything Nik does is golden.
     
  8. FourT6and2

    FourT6and2 SS.org Regular

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    Gargoyle is based off a schematic/layout I created after owning a Meshuggah and being disappointed with it, so I built my own version. Someone sent that schematic to Ceriatone and now they're offering a clone of my clone of a clone of a previous clone of a mod that's been around for 40 years that was originally created by Mark Cameron after finishing a bunch of half-built amps by Jose Arredondo after he died. Make sense lol?

    As far as Gargoyle vs Meshuggah goes... they won't sound the same because Ceriatone made some strange changes. Here is the one I built, which is similar to the Meshuggah, Atomica, Cameron Jose, and many others. Except I added in a 6-position clipping switch, a depth control, and made some changes to the NFB circuit. I wasn't trying to copy the Meshuggah sound—I just tailored it to my own personal tastes. Hell, I built this circuit years ago before the Meshuggah even existed (and so have a bunch of other people all over the world). The specific component values and voicing changes to a stock JCM800 have been on the internet for decades.

    Schematic: https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca8...q6kk-08933baf-9d55-4139-9edc-e7c021cf795d.jpg

     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    technomancer, MASS DEFECT and StevenC like this.
  9. sakeido

    sakeido Contributor

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    how hard is it to build an amp if you've never done it before? that sounds killer
     
  10. Werecow

    Werecow SS.org Regular

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    From what i hear, it can be difficult to not even kill yourself doing it :lol:
     
  11. FourT6and2

    FourT6and2 SS.org Regular

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    It's not hard if you're smart and have patience and you're willing to put in the time to learn and experiment. Learn how to solder. Learn how to strip wire properly. Learn about proper lead dress and proper grounding schemes, etc.

    I started with a Fender Champ kit. Super simple. Then did a Super Lead. Then an SLO clone. Then a bunch of others from there. Read a lot. Lots of helpful info on the net and in books.
     
  12. Bearitone

    Bearitone SS.org Regular

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    Sort of OT but, what was the Fortin Satan based on?
     
  13. mnemonic

    mnemonic Custom User Title

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    Fortin NATAS.

    I haven’t seen a scheme for the NATAS, but speculation I’ve read from people who are into this kinda stuff was that it shares elements with the Elan Metalhead modded Marshall’s. Possibly with some circuitry out of a Larry amp that I can’t remember the name of (the girth and grind controls).
     
  14. sakeido

    sakeido Contributor

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    I rock climb just fine... things can be dangerous, you just gotta make sure you're following all the steps to maintain your safety

    I actually got onto the slo clone forum based on one of your past posts so I've been building up some knowledge. I wired a bunch of stuff in my car so I'm fairly certain I can handle it, just wasn't sure if there skills unique to amp building I haven't picked up yet
     
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  15. FourT6and2

    FourT6and2 SS.org Regular

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    Just jump in and start building something :)
    Only real skills you need outside of circuit knowledge is knowing how to solder and work with wire properly.

    If you can lead a 5.11 and build a suitable anchor without killing yourself I'm sure you can manage a guitar amp just fine lol ;)
     
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  16. HeHasTheJazzHands

    HeHasTheJazzHands greg rulz ok

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    Punch and Bite.

    Which is also how Jon Schaffer got his tight AF sounds, since the Satan's Girth/Grinds are pretty much the Larry Dino Punch/Bite controls. Mike Fortin owns a Larry Dino IIRC.
     

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