Matrix Resurrections....

Andii

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You don’t even fucking know the invisibles you twit

Ad Hominem​


(Attacking the person): This fallacy occurs when, instead of addressing someone's argument or position, you irrelevantly attack the person or some aspect of the person who is making the argument.


they're also the people behind the first Matrix
Exactly.
 

Drew

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For me to explain everything would be "spoilers" and that is why writers/directors do not share the meanings of their films. The literal events that take place are not the story. The meaning is.
I'm happy to hear you out - you know we have [ spoiler ] [ / spoiler ] tags here, right?
 

wheresthefbomb

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Thus Spoke Zarathustra is both incredibly deep and a steaming pile of garbage.

I'm not saying that's the case here, but the more I think about it the more comfortable I am comparing Zarathustra with Matrix:Resurrections. Poor Zarathustra just wanted to share his wOkEnEsS with the unwashed masses, and they just didn't give a fuck, over and over.

Damn I'm not even stoned yet.
 

nightflameauto

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Thus Spoke Zarathustra is both incredibly deep and a steaming pile of garbage.

I'm not saying that's the case here, but the more I think about it the more comfortable I am comparing Zarathustra with Matrix:Resurrections. Poor Zarathustra just wanted to share his wOkEnEsS with the unwashed masses, and they just didn't give a fuck, over and over.

Damn I'm not even stoned yet.
That's . . .
that's. . .
that's like... like, beautiful, man.
 

works0fheart

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I've read a pile of books since I watched this film. Thousands of pages.

The story is 100% symbolism. Just as the very first and "best" Matrix film was. Except the first Matrix film could be taken literally enough for everyone to enjoy the story line.

The story of Matrix Resurrections is nonsense without being able to interpret it. It's an enormous hidden message and every single scene is that way. The story being nonsense without being able to interpret it is to prevent the audience from projecting onto it. You either understand it, or you do not and there is no room for a perceived inbetween. The depth of the symbolism is too specific.


The themes are:

A deep understanding of Psychology:
Consciousness, the conscious mind and the subconscious mind as it pertains to bringing their disconnection into awareness

Influence
Hypnosis
Color coding
Technology
Archetypes
symbolism
Iconology
Spirituality
Mass media and social media
Propaganda
Religion
Sociology
Academia
Socioeconomics
Enlightenment

For me to explain everything would be "spoilers" and that is why writers/directors do not share the meanings of their films. The literal events that take place are not the story. The meaning is.

Oh, ow, my brain, why, oh god, oh fuck.

This is some "Im12andThisisDeep" stuff on another level.

bravo, 5/5, good troll.
 

Andii

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"Oh, ow, my brain, why, oh god, oh fuck.
This is some "Im12andThisisDeep" stuff on another level.
bravo, 5/5, good troll."

-works0fheart

 

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StevenC

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Honestly, I liked the movie. But if this is the kind of company, maybe I need to rethink my position.
 

Andii

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I read a paragraph of that and felt my brain-stem trying to fight its way out of my spinal column. WTF?
That's a perfectly natural response to that stimulus, especially without the massive context needed. I just wanted to start backing up the fact that there is source material for my claims of there being a "meaning" of the films other than the literal events of the plot taking place on screen because I can see that people are not responding to it very openly.

I perceive that people feel attacked when they feel as though I am saying something went over their head. But if the thing that is going over one's head is because among other things, they haven't read weird texts that might look like the ramblings of the mentally ill to them for hours on end, it's just a fact with no connotation or judgement attached.

What I posted there is highly likely to be part of the inspiration of the matrix series and touches on a few of the concepts that are involved. I do not endorse or subscribe to the theory proposed in that text. It is a book that was written right before the beginning of the scientific based psychology that we have now. The ideas within are what gave some direction to the scientific study of the human mind in the west. Some of that text is nonsense and some of it is very plausible and unable to be disproven. It lurks right outside of the boundary of what is yet to be scientifically explained.

A necessary digression:
There are many parallels with Buddhism, spiritual enlightenment and western psychology. This is something that many psychologists are very well aware of. What is very old and spiritual is what gives direction to the course of the more cold and objective scientific research that confirms and explains. They are both the pursuit of giving an individual control of their mind and aligning the conscious mind to the vast subconscious processes that happen outside of the narrow awareness of consciousness that we experience as our perceived "self".

The human mind is a stack of parts that predate civilization with many odd quirks and glitches. The more that we understand about it, the more there are people in power intentionally exploiting that body of detailed knowledge to control and direct societies and suppress individuation.

The very first film is the easiest to deconstruct the meaning of, but I have never seen it posted online and I'm not going to do it. There is a reason why the film makers refuse to explain it publicly in interviews and I agree with that decision. I could never do it justice like someone discovering it on their own and truly UNDERSTANDING rather than just being told in some manner that was even somewhat concise. But most importantly: To be told what to think, rather than how to think would ruin the deepest level of meaning.

The most I can simplify it is that the entire series is spiritual enlightenment packaged into a literal action movie plot. The messages are extremely counter cultural and highly critical of society as a whole. I would describe the true meaning of the series as the single most subversive piece of mass media I have ever witnessed.

I am genuinely not trying to pull some "2 deep 4u" posturing here. Don't shoot the messenger. I am revealing that there is far more than the literal events of the plot and hopefully provoking thought.
 

Andii

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Here is an excerpt referenced in "The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious". "The Three Principles of the Divine Essence" by Jakob Böhme written 1618–1619.

11. All that has been born in this third Principle continues eternally in the Matrix. And if a Man
has in this Lifetime is not reborn into the second principle, then he shall remain eternally in the
Matrix, yet not reach the Light of God.
12. The Matrix is inanimate and void of Understanding, and in this World there is no true
Understanding, either in the Stars, or in the Elements; and in all its Creatures there is only an
Understanding of how to operate, to nourish itself, and to increase, in the matrix.


This is the way that "The Matrix" was named. And virtually everything in the films can be traced to it's original inspiration. That is just deconstructing the name of the series and giving some sliver insight into the meaning and intention of it.
 

profwoot

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Can you give me, like, a hint?
41PqS20YS1L._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


I was really into The Matrix back in the day (until 2&3 came out). There's a lot there.

To respond more generally, surely it's not controversial on this forum that writers often use metaphors and symbolism to explore subjects beyond the characters' story arcs? In the case of the latest film, the question isn't whether the writers had deeper ambitions, it's whether they were able to fulfill them while telling an interesting story (which, no).
 

jaxadam

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Not a lot of people know this, but these movies are straight plagiarized from a book by Dr. Suess called “Linear Algebra”.
 

narad

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Honestly, I liked the movie. But if this is the kind of company, maybe I need to rethink my position.

You should probably rethink your position regardless.
 

works0fheart

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When you've gotta read an elongated essay to backup the plot of the movie the material of the movie probably isn't great. It very well may bring things together in a way that causes it to make more sense, but this has been seen as a net negative with every movie/video game/story driven anything over the past 10+ years. Not everyone wants to have to go to that level to enjoy a 2 hour movie. They shouldn't have to go that level when other movies manage to tell a story in around the same amount of time and have it be coherent.
 

nightflameauto

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When you've gotta read an elongated essay to backup the plot of the movie the material of the movie probably isn't great. It very well may bring things together in a way that causes it to make more sense, but this has been seen as a net negative with every movie/video game/story driven anything over the past 10+ years. Not everyone wants to have to go to that level to enjoy a 2 hour movie. They shouldn't have to go that level when other movies manage to tell a story in around the same amount of time and have it be coherent.
Yeah.

I mean, I get the backlash to the dumb action flick that literally has nothing beneath the shiny, shiny surface and wanting to have a little intellectual stimulation with your movie / story, but there's intellectual, and then there's, "You should have studied your $philosophy_book if you wanted to enjoy the film," shittery.
 

Andii

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I was really into The Matrix back in the day (until 2&3 came out). There's a lot there.

To respond more generally, surely it's not controversial on this forum that writers often use metaphors and symbolism to explore subjects beyond the characters' story arcs? In the case of the latest film, the question isn't whether the writers had deeper ambitions, it's whether they were able to fulfill them while telling an interesting story (which, no).
Great post. Everyone that has said that the story needs to be compelling regardless how clever the metaphors are makes a valid argument. That was where the greatness in the first film was, it connected to the most people.


Have you read that book? I'm super curious about what is in it. Every attempt I have ever seen to explain The Matrix never gets past taking the plot too literally and talks about machines, AI and computer simulations a lot, which is nearly irrelevant to the deepest meaning of the film. People think on the wrong side of the metaphor.

I have been trying to read reviews of that book now that I know about it, and I can't get a read on it from reviews, so if you could share a bit that would be much appreciated.
 

Bloody_Inferno

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A bit late to the party in seeing this but... I like it personally, but I can see why so many aren't on board with Resurrections.

Having Lana Wachowski getting angry and making a meta-deconstructionist sequel tearing the original trilogy apart is the same spirit Joe Dante did with Gremlins 2. Or if the Star Wars sequel trilogy started with Last Jedi instead of Force Awakens (I can already imagine the fanboy backlash :lol:). And of course the Wachowskis were never about subtlety either. The first movie was a standalone game changer, but with WB practically mandating the 2 sequels to the Wachowskis, I can see why Lana would be angry about it.

I respect the amount of guts to make these kind of movies, and it 'mostly' lands here for me. A lot of the shamelessness is a bit on the clumsy side (Warner Bros name drop), but that's expected if you want hit somebody on the nose (WB history demanding forced sequels, Hobbit and Gremlins 2 incidentally). Lack of Yuen Woo Ping choreography hurts the action scenes, but then again Ping is in his 80s, and somehow suits the theme of a 'tired' Neo.

With a lot of shameless empty husk of nostalgia worship property coming out (in this case, came out the same time as Ghostbusters Afterlife), it's a nice antidote, even if it doesn't always hit the mark.
 

p0ke

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I don't remember if I commented when the movie came out, but I mostly enjoyed it. Yeah it wasn't as mind blowing as the first Matrix movie, but even the original sequels didn't get anywhere close, so it would've been unfair to expect anything like that. Coming in with zero (or less than zero) expectations and without too deep thinking, it was an entertaining 2 hours or so.
 

KnightBrolaire

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I thought it'd be funny to quote my mom about the movie. She said " what a steaming pile of dogshit, I wish I had never watched it". My mom isn't exactly a discerning movie watcher either. She will watch basically anything, and rarely will films get her to utter comments beyond "meh" or " it's good". I think it's impressive that the movie was so shitty it got my mom angry for having watched it. That's a rare feat previously only accomplished by the last star wars trilogy :lol:



bad movie is still bad.
As far as I'm concerned everything besides the first two (and animatrix) doesn't exist.
 


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