Matrix Resurrections....

Randy

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it's funny that you say this, when the movie literally stated, verbatim, "Warner Brothers has decided to make a sequel to the trilogy. They are going to do it with or without us. They'll kill our contract if they don't cooperate." People are in here "gee whizz was that for real!?" Takes two seconds to Google it and see that, yes, it was... with the guy who wrote X-Men: The Last Stand and Ready Player One, so it would have been horrible.

Then they have a focus group say the first things people think of when they hear the Matrix is "originality" and "fresh." Then they have Neo, clearly a stand-in for the Wachowskis (one or both, doesn't matter) completely lose their shit and try and kill himself because they hate the idea of a sequel so much. They have a gross, sexist dude bro who completely missed the point of the first trilogy say it was all about bullet time - he's clearly a stand-in for the audience members who didn't notice the OG trilogy were really about philosophy and allegory and the gun fights and kung fu were just window dressing. They do everything to make fun of reboot culture, say they were done with the movies, and point out doing a sequel is stupid. They make it extremely clear they aren't going to do a straight reboot/sequel/whatever... and people still didn't get it. It certainly was "very on-the-nose," but clearly still not obvious enough.

The old Matrix trilogy thought people were smart. The new one knows people are stupid and was written with that in mind... and people still didn't get it. All you need to do is read this thread. It's honestly fucking hilarious (and very sad, but oh well). The movie calls its shot in the first 20 minutes or so, basically nails it, and people are absolutely furious about it but that says a lot more about them than the movie.

This movie is Last Action Hero mixed with Sense8 and the old Matrix movies, jammed into a blender. I can't believe they managed to make this movie. It's amazing. It's definitely not perfect. 8 out of 10 at the absolute best. But it's the most interesting big franchise movie I've seen in ... forever, honestly. All these horribly offended, super butthurt reactions are a nice dessert.



That machine was actually named for a plot device as old as Western civilization itself... deus ex machina is a reference to ancient Greek theater. Odds are pretty good that it references Neo and Trinity being saved from actual death by the machines but whatever

So it's a parody? The thing you're ultra impressed by is the fact they parodied their own movie 20 years later?
 

StevenC

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So it's a parody? The thing you're ultra impressed by is the fact they parodied their own movie 20 years later?
To an extent, yes. The movie has a lot to say in my opinion, but one of the questions it asks is why are you watching this movie and why have people been asking for it for 20 years?

To be honest I don't understand what anyone was expecting from this movie or how it could have been better.
 

Randy

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It's just a weird concept. Bait people in that were fans of your movie so you can tell them they're stupid for that and send them on their way.
 

StevenC

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It's just a weird concept. Bait people in that were fans of your movie so you can tell them they're stupid for that and send them on their way.
I don't think wanting the audience to ask questions of themselves is bait, but I do think calling that bait is a good argument for Resurrections being right about something.
 

Aewrik

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Great post!

The old Matrix trilogy thought people were smart.

One thing about this line though: the original plot was dumbed down for the masses, from what I heard. The original idea was not that we're somehow efficient batteries, but that we were used as co-processors for the machines. The urgency to break out of the matrix was supposed to be that our brains were adapted to and dehumanized by the matrix/our role as processors, just like how extended exposure to anything affects our thinking and behavior. Cipher's reason for wanting to return to the matrix was not the dystopia outside, but a consequence of being adapted to the matrix, like a kind of mechanical dopamine craving (or literal, but I suppose breaking out of the matrix would be difficult if drowned in hormones...).
 

IwantTacos

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Great post!



One thing about this line though: the original plot was dumbed down for the masses, from what I heard. The original idea was not that we're somehow efficient batteries, but that we were used as co-processors for the machines. The urgency to break out of the matrix was supposed to be that our brains were adapted to and dehumanized by the matrix/our role as processors, just like how extended exposure to anything affects our thinking and behavior. Cipher's reason for wanting to return to the matrix was not the dystopia outside, but a consequence of being adapted to the matrix, like a kind of mechanical dopamine craving (or literal, but I suppose breaking out of the matrix would be difficult if drowned in hormones...).

More like the original plot was beat for beat a copy of every concept in the invisibles. But they couldn’t figure out their own take on it that made sense so they dumbed it down instead.
 
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Randy

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I don't think wanting the audience to ask questions of themselves is bait, but I do think calling that bait is a good argument for Resurrections being right about something.

Meh, I still think it's overly judgemental of the audience. It's not like if you watch the Matrix you're a stone dumb moron. It's possible to watch and enjoy legitimately deep or cerebral movies for what they are and go into the Matrix or one of its sequels thinking it's something else.

I guess my point is that I found the original Matrix to be kind of overambitious for whatever themes they were going for juxtaposed with the horrible acting and the so-so directing. That's even before this whole reimagining we're doing 20 years later. The saving grace of the Matrix was the aesthetic and the fact that the first time you watch(ed) it, each turn is a surprise or a new layer as the environment grows. A Cabin in the Woods, sort of.

To come back afterward and say this movie is too smart for you or the theme was singular and you were too stupid to get it because it was buried under a layer of bullet time awe is yeah, cheap. Maybe people missed the subtext or didn't but the acting was so poor and the extraneous goings on were so gaudy that they gave up caring and just appreciated the movie for what they were seeing on the screen.

Maybe I'm alone in this but when I go into a movie, I kinda size it up at some point and decide when I'm putting my brain on cruise control. I can't imagine keeping my brain turned on for 2 hours of Keanu Reeves doing anything.
 

Rev2010

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it's funny that you say this, when the movie literally stated, verbatim, "Warner Brothers has decided to make a sequel to the trilogy. They are going to do it with or without us. They'll kill our contract if they don't cooperate." People are in here "gee whizz was that for real!?" Takes two seconds to Google it and see that, yes, it was... with the guy who wrote X-Men: The Last Stand and Ready Player One, so it would have been horrible.

Funny, and you think you have it all figured out and the rest of us that didn't like it just don't get the movie. It was not a parody of itself, nor something made solely to get revenge on Warner Brothers or simply make some sort of statement.

Lana said herself while going through the grief of losing her parents and her wife's close friend, "I didn’t really know how to process that kind of grief. I hadn’t experienced it … I knew my dad was getting sick and you know that their lives are going to end and yet, it was still really hard. My brain has always reached into my imagination and one night, I was just crying and couldn’t sleep. Suddenly, my brain exploded this whole story and I couldn’t have my mom and dad. I couldn’t talk to my mom and yet, suddenly, I had Neo and Trinity — arguably the two most important characters in my life — and it was immediately comforting to have these two characters alive again."

Yeah, that sure sounds like the work of someone making a joke out of their latest project. :confused: She wanted to make it very meta and also about mental health. I think mirroring her real life situations into parts of the movie, such as that office scene where "We're going to make it with or without you" was just a way to incorporate that.

and people still didn't get it. All you need to do is read this thread. It's honestly fucking hilarious (and very sad, but oh well)
All these horribly offended, super butthurt reactions are a nice dessert.

Then you go on to insult people for simply discussing a movie in a thread? I don't recall seeing anyone super butthurt here, not like people are calling for a boycott :nuts:
 
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DudeManBrother

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I wasn’t offended or butthurt by the movie whatsoever. I don’t know anything about the directors, their storyline motivations, or what they hoped to convey originally with the -red pill/blue pill- concept. I never even finished the sequels. I just think the movie flat out sucked. Why does Neo need to keep doing that stupid thing with his hands everytime agents are shooting at him? Nobody else had that ability, and yet not a single bullet ever came even close to hitting anyone. Just keep running and you’ll be perfectly fine. It was like an old cartoon episode of GI Joe.
 

narad

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It sucked. Not as bad as II or III, but just in this kind of unnecessary and unremarkable way. It wasn't clever in a "Primer" way, it was clever in like a Hollywood "Scream III" kinda way, which is to say, not very. Matrix + Animatrix, and I just try to forget the rest ever happened.
 

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eh I just rewatched the first one a little while ago. I think that movie still holds up. They pioneered a lot of stuff that hadn't been done before...and that movie is basically a straight rip of one of my favorite comics of all time. So I thin that movie gets a pass.

It made a boatload of money too...and they rode that goodwill all the way too....ummm Jupiter Ascending? oof.
Hey! Jupiter Ascending is the absolute best movie in the world to watch when you're stoned out of your mind and feeling like watching someone else's fever dreams.
Not about the movie coz I haven't seen it yet... anybody seen Animatrix? The trilogy made sense to me when I watched it. Any thoughts about it?
I love the Animatrix.
I like Animatrix, though it’s been a long time since I’ve seen it. And the new movie isn’t groundbreaking, but it wasn’t as bad as everyone is making it out to be.
Actually, it's every bit as bad as people are making it out to be.

And I hate that I have to say that. I'm a dude that LOVES meta and forth walling to an almost brutal degree, and within a half hour I'm like, "just make a plot and stop doing this fourth wall funny, funny poking shit."

I tried twice and fell asleep both times. It's just not engaging on any level whatsoever. By the time I made it through the scene where they meet in the coffee shop my brain was scrambling to find something else to think about and I basically passed out. It kinda makes me sad this movie got made when it fairly well spells out exactly why they didn't want to make it in the first place.

Maybe years down the road people will be able to hold it up as a turning point in self-referential bullshit, but right now it just sorta feels like somebody tossed a turd in the punch bowl.
 

profwoot

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I was very enthusiastic about the first Matrix, and spent many hours discussing its philosophical implications and in-universe plot possibilities. I even stayed mostly on board after the second film, thinking it might actually be brilliant if it was setting up the third film. After that shitshow I began to realize the power of crowdsourcing, as what emerges from a large number of enthusiasts can be far more compelling than what any individual or small team will likely come up with.

The 4th one seems like a triviality. Not vacuous like the 3rd, but still without much of import to say beyond an F U to the studio and a dig at the mindlessness of the populace. Since it's also entirely lacking in style, the mediocre philosophy is all there is to fall back on. I don't lament its creation, but I also don't imagine I'll long remember it exists.
 

thebeesknees22

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I'm in the corner of loving the first one. It was imho revolutionary for it's time. It changed everything in film, and paved the way for LOTR and pretty much every big vfx film after.

2 and 3 were ok, minus the dumb cave rave scene. They could have definitely been better, but they were still watchable.

4 though is just borderline unwatchable. It took me 2 nights to get through it and that was a struggle.
 

sakeido

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the so-so directing. That's even before this whole reimagining we're doing 20 years later. The saving grace of the Matrix was the aesthetic and the fact that the first time you watch(ed) it, each turn is a surprise or a new layer as the environment grows. A Cabin in the Woods, sort of.

Do takes get any spicier and wrong than saying the first Matrix had "so-so directing?" I'm not sure. It's only one of the most influential action movies of all time... there's an argument to be made it's the single most influential action movie of all time. It's very rare that a movie that's a feast for the senses has anything to say, much less themes worth discussing for 20+ years. We're talking about a movie so good, so far ahead of its time, it got the Wachowskis a free pass to spend a quarter billion dollars of studio money to make extremely weird movies every few years, apparently for the rest of their lives. I guess that all happened completely by accident?

Maybe years down the road people will be able to hold it up as a turning point in self-referential bullshit, but right now it just sorta feels like somebody tossed a turd in the punch bowl.
if people can change their tune about Last Action Hero, which was a poorly reviewed bomb on release, it can happen for this one too
 

Randy

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I guess that all happened completely by accident?

"So-so" is spicy to you?

The scenery was kind of a less jarring Dark City/The Crow-type (so, borrowed), as I said the acting was VERY bad, the dialogue as it was written is not great and a lot of the scenes themselves were awkward. The premise was fantastic, the costume design, fight choreography and special effects were legendary and rightly so.

That's how you get to "so-so" directing.

Keep in mind, that's aside from the fact I entered this discussion saying the original movie was good and I mentioned the Animatrix because I thought it built on the same world but delivered it a little better because it wasn't dragged down by the same shortcomings of the live-action movie. The two combined were very good, I thought what they decided to so with it after that was a shame.

"Most influential" eh, idk. The aesthetic and the gunplay choreography thing definitely, although it was kind of a trend for a few years (Equilibrium?) that died out. The thing it had going for it the most was the fact it was a 2 hour VFX demo reel with a lot of revolutionary effects (bullet time, the helicopter scene, the bank lobby, the weapon "vault"). No arguments there.

I'm just missing this idea that it needs to be reimagined as not just a very unique movie that did a lot of 'never before scene' things visually, but it also needs to be Citizen fuckin' Kane too and because we unwashed neanderthals didn't realize it was this masterpiece for the last 20 years, we need to be condescended for thinking we were getting a fun new pew pew pew movie.
 

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I think a lot of the city sets were literally ‘second hand’ from Dark City!!!

The budgets weren’t there to start afresh, so they had to make do...
 

FILTHnFEAR

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I wouldn't call it terrible, but it wasn't all that good either. Took me 2 sit downs to get through it. I loved the first 3 films, minus some of the 3rd.

They should have just left it as a trilogy. But everything has to be redone/remade/reimagined(usually resulting in horrid failure) these days because Hollywood is severely lacking in the creative department.
 

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I saw it on Sunday, probably should have read some reviews first lol. The misses was not thrilled and I'm on the so and so and probably didn't need a 4th movie camp.

From the original Matrix movies, I liked the first one. The second was just action, action, action, explosions with no story at all and the third one, while better, it seemed like they were just making stuff up. A lot of plot holes, which might seem intentional to give deep meaning and let the viewer think of the outcome, but it was obvious they had no idea where they were going with this.

The reasons I liked this chapter was the first half of the movie. Honestly if they stuck to that story line, that everything was his overactive imagination and a psychotic breakdown then it would have been so much more interesting. Then the action scenes were uninspiring and awful. One thing they tried to do really haphazardly is develop Trinity a bit more. Give her a bit more of an equal footing, vs being the love inspiration behind the net Messiah. But they did not really develop her character that much as it was focused on Mr. Anderson. Anyway a bit of a wasted potential and unfortunately left openings for more movies. I hope they don't but market, money and all that.
 


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