It's official, a """Pantera reunion""" is happening.

MASS DEFECT

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Not WWII memorabilia, but specifically pro Japan propaganda, medals, kamikaze models etc.

Wondering if people see that just as offensively as if he was decked out in full SS gear.

It would surely make some people uncomfortable especially if they knew what happened. When the Japanese landed and holed up in "open city" Manila, by all accounts they were worse than the Nazis. Like literally, testing their swords on males and their children, gathering up all the women of entire neighborhoods to rape day in and day out, burning kids alive and skinning them. Each and every soldier like that. Then there's the Death March. What they did was way worse in China and Korea.

But most people would be like "cool planes".
 
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ArtDecade

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anigif_sub-buzz-1108-1573510965-1.gif
 

jaxadam

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I think you might know who Wagner is and just not know it. If memory serves, he did Flight of the Valkyries, which most should know from Bugs and Elmer Fudd. "Kill the waaabbit! Kill the waaabbit!"

Morbid curiosity got the best of me, and I tried to look this up, but let's just say I'm really confused now. Can someone explain this to me like I'm 43?
 

ArtDecade

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Morbid curiosity got the best of me, and I tried to look this up, but let's just say I'm really confused now. Can someone explain this to me like I'm 43?

Wagner was a racist and an anti-Semite. As a fan of the music, Hitler appropriated Wagner's imagery into the fabric of Nazism.
 

mmr007

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I love classical music but not a particular fan of Wagner…that said I thought the music used in one of my favorite movies Excalibur really worked. That is NOT an endorsement of antisemitism on my part. I just liked that movie and the music in it….though the Carl Orff music was better
 

WarMachine

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I think the bigger issue isn't what someone likes or dislikes/disagrees with etc. I see the bigger issue being more of how quick people are to fucking judge someone. Maybe I'm ignorant to it, but I've never heard of celtic/Nordic any-ic being racist. Sure, tacky as fuck IMO, but others may think that it's cool. But never tied into a racism pissing match. But hey, what do I know? By all accounts of this thread I'm one of those dumb hillbillies that live in WV :lol:

Seriously though, is it really that difficult to approach someone and ask, "what does that mean to you?". Or is it just easier to say "look at that fucking racist tool".
 

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I keep seeing this thread title and thinking something cool about power metal is happening.

No one gives a shit about Anselmo. I hope Rita goes full lawsuit on him and keeps it from happening.

Not reading 23 pages tho. That’s a lotta words.
 

jaxadam

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Nowadays everything is ___ist and ___phobic so much to the point that you just end up being apathetic about it all. Show me on the doll where Zakk touched you.

No kidding. I’m getting ready to “unfriend” one of my buddies of more than 30 years because his favorite NFL team is the Minnesota Vikings.
 

tedtan

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Norse runes and mythology have been used in metal for over 25 years, and if you include rock, you can go back to at least Led Zeppelin IV released in 1971.

Meanwhile, white supremacists seem to have been coopting those Norse symbols for the past ~5 years or so.

So if I come across a rock or metal band using Norse symbols, I’ll probably assume that they are continuing the rock/metal use of those symbols unless/until something indicates otherwise. To assume racism here based solely on the use of Norse symbols seems to be jumping the gun.
 

xzacx

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Norse runes and mythology have been used in metal for over 25 years, and if you include rock, you can go back to at least Led Zeppelin IV released in 1971.

Meanwhile, white supremacists seem to have been coopting those Norse symbols for the past ~5 years or so.

So if I come across a rock or metal band using Norse symbols, I’ll probably assume that they are continuing the rock/metal use of those symbols unless/until something indicates otherwise. To assume racism here based solely on the use of Norse symbols seems to be jumping the gun.
Sorry but this is super off. It goes back way further and was even used by the actual Nazis in the '20s-'40s. The SS logo is literally runes. Unlike something like a swastika or rebel flag, I do think they're also used by a lot of people in innocent ways, but the history of the connotation is deep.
 

Albake21

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To be honest, I had never even heard of this Viking usage before until today. Sounds incredibly stupid and a way for racists to just win every time by us affirming their actions.
 
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Nowadays everything is ___ist and ___phobic so much to the point that you just end up being apathetic about it all. Show me on the doll where Zakk touched you.
Blanket nonsense like this really means "I don't want to think about whether or not what I'm saying or doing is wrong so I'll just be mad at the people explaining why it's wrong".

It's really simple and has been explained in this thread multiple times.
 

MASS DEFECT

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To be clear, nobody here has opined that using Norse runes/imagery is tantamount to that somebody being racist. I, for one, regard the use of Viking runes as harmless if you literally belong to the pagan religions or of some national identity or lineage. Or you like the TV Show, or you do cosplay.

However, if it is used alongside other symbols of hate or you use the identified Nazi/Neo Nazi Norse symbols, that is a huge red flag. Like my co-worker who wears Thor's hammer necklace and has a life rune (Algis) tattooed on his index finger, I would've thought it was harmless. But then I saw his truck with a thin blue line flag and a literal SS Helmet sticker, I wouldn't want to be friends with that guy.
 
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To be clear, nobody here has opined that using Norse runes/imagery is tantamount to that somebody being racist. I, for one, regard the use of Viking runes as harmless if you literally belong to the pagan religions or of some national identity or lineage. Or you like the TV Show, or you do cosplay.

However, if it is used alongside other symbols of hate or you use the identified Nazi/Neo Nazi Norse symbols, that is a huge red flag. Like my co-worker who wears Thor's hammer necklace and has a life rune (Algis) tattooed on his index finger, I would've thought it was harmless. But then I saw his truck with a thin blue line flag and a literal SS Helmet sticker, I wouldn't want to be friends with that guy.
The people pretending that the conversation is "Vikings = racism" know that's not said in here. It's just a way to skip over the details in favor of trying to make the conversation seem silly and blown out of proportion. Either that or poor reading comprehension. Possibly both.
 

Spaced Out Ace

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Blanket nonsense like this really means "I don't want to think about whether or not what I'm saying or doing is wrong so I'll just be mad at the people explaining why it's wrong".

It's really simple and has been explained in this thread multiple times.
At a certain point, people are desensitized to it, to a point where they stop caring. The same thing happened when a, b, c, x, y, z and more were considered cancerous/hazardous for your health. People stopped caring and said, "we've all gotta die sometime," rather than avoiding said things. Once it got to "microaggressions" a lot of people started tuning it out and surmising, "people will never be happy so whatever."
 
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At a certain point, people are desensitized to it, to a point where they stop caring. The same thing happened when a, b, c, x, y, z and more were considered cancerous/hazardous for your health. People stopped caring and said, "we've all gotta die sometime," rather than avoiding said things. Once it got to "microaggressions" a lot of people started tuning it out and surmising, "people will never be happy so whatever."
It's easy to separate stupid small things from the bigger picture.

Also It's a lot easier to dismiss it when it doesn't effect you. Men can easily wave off claims of misogyny. Straight people can laugh off issues of homophobia. White people can roll their eyes at racism.

I don't have tolerance for lazy attitudes regarding people who are literally fighting for their right to exist
 


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