Is this DI good enough to reamp / am i going nuts?

Discussion in 'Recording Studio' started by CreptorStatus, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. CreptorStatus

    CreptorStatus SS.org Regular

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    Hey guys,

    Recently started tracking some guitar DI's to reamp later. I use EZmix guitars tones when tracking and they don't sound the best but work for my demo purposes. I stumbled upon this website where you can reamp your DI's through a kemper online and tested it out. BUT i cannot for the life of me get a good tone.

    So this has me worried that something is up with my DI. I sent it to a friend who dialed a tone using the Fortin Nameless plugin and while he thought it was fine, he also noticed a lack of punch and definition. And this is probably the best way to describe what i THINK i am hearing. Doing some research, a few people said the pickup combo (EMG 81/85) will always sound bad using amp sims / kemper as it was designed to be used on tube amps?

    Anyway, i am hoping someone here with experience in reamping or guitar sims can tell me if something is wrong with this DI or I just suck at dialing in tones. A link to a 2 minute section of the DI is below:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ofrlzlbitke50bs/DI_TEST_GUITAR_RIGHT.wav?dl=0

    Here is what i am using to record it.
    ESP LTD Evertune / Emg 81/85 (new strings and battery) > Focusrite Forte (instrument input) > Protools Session (24 bit, 44.1khz).

    Thanks a ton in advance.
     
    Nikolas Quemtri likes this.
  2. Lukhas

    Lukhas SS.org Regular

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    I ran it through both Mercuriall's ReAxis and Spark. To my ears, your pick attack isn't aggressive enough considering the type of music you want to play, and it's hard to fix in post EQ. I'm used to hear more edge-picking and harder picking. Of course you could compress your ass off that tone (although the 81 is already quite compressed), but try really digging into the strings a lot more with more of the edge of the pick.

    Also, I don't think those minor chords in the opening section sound too good; the voicing could be altered or some notes of the chord (the thirds namely) transferred to another instrument.

    EDIT: For example, compare with this DI track.
    https://www85.zippyshare.com/v/s6N4Iwxh/file.html

    It's from this video.


    You can clearly hear the chugging palm-mutes on the low strings. Of course, you'd have to compress slightly/EQ those palm-mutes in the mix, but to get that tone, you need to hit the strings at least that hard.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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  3. CreptorStatus

    CreptorStatus SS.org Regular

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    Awesome, thanks for the feedback. I feel like I pick pretty damn hard when playing normally. I am wondering if maybe the amp-sim / tone I am using for this is causing to let up / lighten my palming muting and picking in an effort to get the notes audible.. I dunno. Actually i just had an epiphany and I think i had some EQ and compression plug-ins on the track I am using to record to the DI.. I imagine this could also be effecting what i am hearing / how am i playing vs how the actual dry DI track sounds?

    Again thanks, guess I am going to rerecord this with no EQ on the track and pick really fucking hard. Back to the drawing board.
     
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  4. Konfyouzd

    Konfyouzd has left the building Contributor

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    Excellent thread. Will be lurking. Here's a free bump.
     
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  5. Metropolis

    Metropolis SS.org Regular

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    DI itself had kind of flat quality in it and in middle section riffs with hard palm mutes were almost clipping, but I think that playing is better than fine. Usually having a signal not that hot helps with clarity. I did comparison with Glenn Fricker's, Ola's, and my own recordings.

    Seriously I don't really know... :D sounding like that is nature of EMG's, since you got them this might be interesting. Like there is super hot signal and then it's almost running out of headroom or something.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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  6. CreptorStatus

    CreptorStatus SS.org Regular

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    Thanks for checking it out. I was under the impression you should get the signal as close but not actually clipping as possible. I'll definitely try turning it down.

    Someone else mentioned i should my pickup height, and I realize that its probably set pretty low at the moment. So i am hoping that might also help.
     
  7. CreptorStatus

    CreptorStatus SS.org Regular

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    Nice! Not sure how I missed this video, i love Jari/Wintersun. And yeah, those DI's at the end sound like they are almost clipping.
     
  8. Metropolis

    Metropolis SS.org Regular

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    Generally actives should be pretty close to the strings. I'll drop this picture here for comparison between passive moderately high output pickups and yours.
    Pickup test.png
     
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  9. CreptorStatus

    CreptorStatus SS.org Regular

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    Hmm, yeah I'm definitely going to have to go home and try a few different things out. I've got a nice list of things going..
     
  10. Flappydoodle

    Flappydoodle SS.org Regular

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    I'm curious about that website for re-amping through a Kemper. Link?

    Immediately I recognise that DI as the sound of an EMG81 DI, haha.

    I ran it through a couple of my go-to patches your DI is noticeably darker sounding than usual. You're absolutely certain you didn't have anything going on with EQ, tone knob at 0 etc before you recorded? This is raw DI without any sort of processing at all?

    Here is a DI from Lasse Lammert. Also recorded with an EMG-81, so it's a good comparison:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/8kfd00ljlrv6zjc/DI_Guitar_L.wav?dl=0

    I ran your DI and his through the same patch and used an EQ plugin to analyse the differences. Yours is much more bass-heavy and scooped, lacking a lot of mid-range and high-end. See the attached image which shows the EQ adjustments to make your DI sound like his. See the massive boosts needed for mid-range and high end, and the huge cut in low end. I applied that EQ adjustment and yours sounded way better to my ears.

    Agree with others that it's also lacking some input gain. Your DI is much quieter than his. That doesn't help when you want an aggressive sound. But I think it's very cleanly played overall.
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. CreptorStatus

    CreptorStatus SS.org Regular

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    Thanks for the analysis!
    I am fairly certain this is a completely dry unprocessed DI, but i will double check when i get home.

    By tone knob at 0, you mean all the way up or down? The tone knob was all the way up..
    The EQ comparison is pretty interesting.. Perhaps a bad wiring/solder connect could be doing that? Bad input jack connect? Curious now if i need to have a tech look at it.
    But luckily, i have basically a run of the exact same guitar with the same EMGs on the way. So i will definitely be doing a comparison when that guitar arrives. That should be an interesting experiment.

    I posted this a few other places and have got a nice list of tips / things to try out:
    Palm mute harder
    Use a harder guitar pick
    Raise the pickups
    Check the input level of the amp sim / dont trust the amp sim sound too much
    Low the input level on my interface when recording

    Lots of things to test here.
     
  12. CreptorStatus

    CreptorStatus SS.org Regular

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    Sorry, here is the reamp website: https://ampincloud.com/
     
  13. Descent

    Descent SS.org Regular

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    I usually reamp actives through Radial Reamp or DI box in reverse.
    I'll load yours and compare.
     
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  14. CreptorStatus

    CreptorStatus SS.org Regular

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    Much appreciate it!
     
  15. Descent

    Descent SS.org Regular

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    Here's my reamp test
    https://soundcloud.com/egregoreband/test-guitar-marshland

    Speedpicking at 0:37 sounds kinda weird, almost like a russian national music, maybe try for more accents on the pick.

    Doesn't sound bad, maybe just whatever site you used didn't know how to mix your sounds?
     
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  16. newamerikangospel

    newamerikangospel Tonight.......you

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    The trem picked section sounds super clinical, in a way that almost sounds programmed. I havent had any DIs from evertune bridges, but this almost sounds compressed beyond the EMG expectations. Is this a common characteristic of Evertune?
     
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  17. CreptorStatus

    CreptorStatus SS.org Regular

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    Thanks for checking this out man. The site lets you dial in your own tone and i got pretty similar results that you got. I feel like its missing a bit of definition and punch to it though?

    Yeah the tremolo was definitely over edited. Kinda new to this, getting too carried away.
     
  18. CreptorStatus

    CreptorStatus SS.org Regular

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    Yeah, over-zealous editing on my part for that tremolo section. This whole thing has been a great learning experience for tracking DIs..

    I don't really see how the Evertune would effect the tone or have any effect on compression. Metropolis posted a video of Jari from Wintersun testing pickups, and both guitarist in that band had evertunes installed in all their guitars.
     
  19. newamerikangospel

    newamerikangospel Tonight.......you

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    Didnt know if they ate pick attack because of their design. I know that listening back to these it sound uncanny with the parts I know you hit hard on since the tuning doesnt bounce around and then settle.
     
  20. newamerikangospel

    newamerikangospel Tonight.......you

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    https://drive.google.com/open?id=16Do1oLBHqTroGkwT-fdjyuGVMIsuPSmG

    I had mics setup for a reamp session for someone, so I ran these through my DSL and also Neural Nameless. I don't feel like these "dont" work, but with how hot these were recorded, I had to turn the gain down a lot. However, I actually prefer this sound and record my DIs really hot, too. I do feel like the amp track does breathe a little bit better, even though it had more overall gain.
     

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