help on getting rid of string mute echo

/wrists

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Let me post a sample of what I'm talking about. Normally, I'd deduce this is a gain issue and I think part of it IS a gain issue, but I was hoping maybe someone can help me understand how to effectively implementing a practical noise gate...

I think it's a gain issue because when I switch it up to a more gainy preset (for my guitar with ONE emghz) the echo becomes even more apparent. But this mix sounds quite organic with just .75 gain. I've set it to lower to around .5, but then it just sounds like shit.

Equipment Axe Fx II & Seymour Duncan TB12 (Screamin' Demon) bridge + SH6N (Seymourizer) neck
https://www.mboxdrive.com/why string eko.mp3

But how in the world is .75 input drive excessive gain?

upload_2021-11-2_17-24-5.png
My drive pedal is set to 0.
upload_2021-11-2_17-24-41.png

GEQ. upload_2021-11-2_17-25-6.png

This is what I probably need to change, but even reading on it, I'm a little confused.

upload_2021-11-2_17-25-22.png
 

/wrists

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Should I also put my EQ before the Drive and Amp?
 

J-PPP

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This is what I probably need to change, but even reading on it, I'm a little confused.

Turn the ”release” down/shorter. Then play around with threshold and ratio.
 

/wrists

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whenever i mess with noise gate my playing clips in and out
 

Sylim

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a couple of things come to mind. do you mute the strings behind the nut and bridge with some foam or tape? that ringing kind of sounds like those parts of the strings.

think of the noise gate as a reverse compressor. instead of doing something above the threshold, it does stuff below the threshold.
set the attack as fast as possible (5ms or lower imo), so it opens up faster. if it´s too slow the pick attack starts to sound sluggish and muddy. the release can be a bit slower (~100ms), so it doesn´t close too quickly, which can make it sound very choppy. then raise the threshold untill you notice it getting cleaner (between -60db to -40db depending on pickups and input level), then tweak from there. when you put the ratio to inf. you basically have a really hard gate that completely mutes the sound and feels super tight. when it´s set to 1 it doesn´t do anything, just like a compressor that would be set to a ratio of 1:1.

putting an EQ before or after the amp does completely different things. after the amp it shapes the frequency balance of the tone. before the amp it shapes the behavior of the amp and how it distorts, just like the drive pedal. folks rather use a drive pedal for their natural mid range boost and low cut, which makes the amp responde much tighter. in a hi gain context, drive pedal are not used for extra distortion. hi gain amps have plenty on their own.

i´m not familiar with the axe-fx eq´s and i´m no expert on different types of eq´s, so take this with a grain of salt. i think "5 band const Q" means the Q factor or width of the eq bands stay the same whether you boost or cut.
"5 band var Q" means the Q factor or width gets smaller the more you cut.
and i think "5 band passive" is an eq that only cuts and doesn´t boost. but i think in this context the bands just behave a little different.
 

/wrists

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a couple of things come to mind. do you mute the strings behind the nut and bridge with some foam or tape? that ringing kind of sounds like those parts of the strings.

think of the noise gate as a reverse compressor. instead of doing something above the threshold, it does stuff below the threshold.
set the attack as fast as possible (5ms or lower imo), so it opens up faster. if it´s too slow the pick attack starts to sound sluggish and muddy. the release can be a bit slower (~100ms), so it doesn´t close too quickly, which can make it sound very choppy. then raise the threshold untill you notice it getting cleaner (between -60db to -40db depending on pickups and input level), then tweak from there. when you put the ratio to inf. you basically have a really hard gate that completely mutes the sound and feels super tight. when it´s set to 1 it doesn´t do anything, just like a compressor that would be set to a ratio of 1:1.

putting an EQ before or after the amp does completely different things. after the amp it shapes the frequency balance of the tone. before the amp it shapes the behavior of the amp and how it distorts, just like the drive pedal. folks rather use a drive pedal for their natural mid range boost and low cut, which makes the amp responde much tighter. in a hi gain context, drive pedal are not used for extra distortion. hi gain amps have plenty on their own.

i´m not familiar with the axe-fx eq´s and i´m no expert on different types of eq´s, so take this with a grain of salt. i think "5 band const Q" means the Q factor or width of the eq bands stay the same whether you boost or cut.
"5 band var Q" means the Q factor or width gets smaller the more you cut.
and i think "5 band passive" is an eq that only cuts and doesn´t boost. but i think in this context the bands just behave a little different.

Thanks the answer I got from the fractal audio forum was this

"Definitely an AC power, 60 cycle hum. With any gain, it is sometimes unavoidable. But if not excessive, should manageable with proper Gate settings."
 

Sylim

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Thanks the answer I got from the fractal audio forum was this

"Definitely an AC power, 60 cycle hum. With any gain, it is sometimes unavoidable. But if not excessive, should manageable with proper Gate settings."

ah yes, that can be it, too. but this hum does sound kind of excessive to me. so before clamping it down with a noise gate, try to troublshoot some other things. for example try different outlets for the axe-fx, or also try a power conditioner. and perhaps also double check the solders in your guitar and see that things are also properly grounded, like the bridge.
 

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"Definitely an AC power, 60 cycle hum. With any gain, it is sometimes unavoidable. But if not excessive, should manageable with proper Gate settings."
Listening to that clip, that is not 60 cycle hum, but is 100% something on the guitar resonating after you play. You're using a string mute? Try repositioning it, or using a second one behind the one you have on, to fully deaden the strings. Also, it could be the strings resonating behind the nut - try muting them there with some foam or in the short term a paper towel or something. Finally, if this is a guitar with a trem, it could be the trem springs resonating - again, some foam behind the springs should stop this completely.

You COULD use a gate... but it's far easier just to stop it at the source.
 

/wrists

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Listening to that clip, that is not 60 cycle hum, but is 100% something on the guitar resonating after you play. You're using a string mute? Try repositioning it, or using a second one behind the one you have on, to fully deaden the strings. Also, it could be the strings resonating behind the nut - try muting them there with some foam or in the short term a paper towel or something. Finally, if this is a guitar with a trem, it could be the trem springs resonating - again, some foam behind the springs should stop this completely.

You COULD use a gate... but it's far easier just to stop it at the source.
oh damn. okay. I'm not using anything to mute it right now actually. I took the sock off. It is a floating trem, so maybe I can put some foam behind the springs - where should i get that?
 

WarMachine

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oh damn. okay. I'm not using anything to mute it right now actually. I took the sock off. It is a floating trem, so maybe I can put some foam behind the springs - where should i get that?
Use any type of foam that's in uphosltery, like old couch cushions, things like that. My mom had an old cushion that i used a box knife to cut a small piece out of. Velcro'd that to the back of my spring cover of my floyd and it works like a dream. Hides it when you put the cover on and puts pressure against the springs. Where it's thick you don't have to worry about the springs ripping any pieces of the foam either.
 

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The perfect solution to this is to disable the input gate and then place a gate block between your speaker and reverb blocks. Set the sidechain to input one.

What this is going to do is give you a really tight and clean gate, which is being triggered by the dry DI signal of your pickups, which means that the gate won't be choppy or harsh in a way that will kill your sustain. I'd suggest starting with a ratio of 4, attack/release/hold times at their minimum and then slowly turning the threshold control up until you find the point that you're no longer hearing this ringing sound.

I'm not in front of my axe fx right now but if you get stuck shoot me a PM and I'll happily help you investigate further :)

EDIT: I missed the posts talking about the ringing strings past the nut. That should be your first port of call, however this gating method I've described is still the best one you can use for gainy tones on the axe fx!
 

/wrists

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thanks for the post - i'm gonna send you a DM

i switched to another guitar (no floating bridge) but when I turn the gain boost on the echo can be hjeard
 

Drew

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oh damn. okay. I'm not using anything to mute it right now actually. I took the sock off. It is a floating trem, so maybe I can put some foam behind the springs - where should i get that?
Wherever you can - honestly, the foam in pickup shipping boxes is pretty good for this, but any sort of foam behind the nut and against the springs in a trem cavity will take most of this off.

On that other guitar without a trem, it's almost certainly sympathetic vibrations behind the nut... but if it's a Tune-o-matic bridge, it certainly could be happening between the bridge and the stopbar, and in that case the fix is the same - dampen the vibrations with something.

Personlly, I don't do a lot of high gain staccato playing like this, so i don't bother. But if I wanted to really kill it for a recording project, I'd start with a muting/dampening approach and then turn to a gate/manually trimming silence if anything was left.
 

CanserDYI

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I just run a slice of duct tape down my post nut strings. Works just fine.
 

Ataraxia2320

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That's EMI 100%.

You can either try to shield your guitar better (aluminium tape is good), or try moving away from your computer and facing the pickups away from it. You might need to do both.

Some lights also cause emi, particularly if they have dimmers.
 

Sylim

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Fractal support: "Definitely an AC power, 60 cycle hum"
Drew: "that is not 60 cycle hum, but is 100% something on the guitar resonating" (personally i tend to agree with Drew here)
Ataraxia2320: "That's EMI 100%"

:lol:

let´s agree it sounds like all of these. so tackle all of these from simplest to hardest. first check any resonating things on your guitar. if that doesn´t help check for EMI, like moving away from your pc. if that doesn´t help, consider getting a power condition to filter the 60 cycle hum.
 

Ataraxia2320

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Fractal support: "Definitely an AC power, 60 cycle hum"
Drew: "that is not 60 cycle hum, but is 100% something on the guitar resonating" (personally i tend to agree with Drew here)
Ataraxia2320: "That's EMI 100%"

:lol:

let´s agree it sounds like all of these. so tackle all of these from simplest to hardest. first check any resonating things on your guitar. if that doesn´t help check for EMI, like moving away from your pc. if that doesn´t help, consider getting a power condition to filter the 60 cycle hum.

This is indeed the correct way to troubleshoot. Try taping your strings behind the nut (and the tailpiece if you have a tune o matic style) first. Then move on to shielding your guitar and then the room.

I would bet money that its emi though. Sounds exactly like my Pacifica which was not properly shielded with shielding paint from the factory.
 


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