Helix 3.5 just dropped

MatrixClaw

Whoaaa No Way!!!
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
893
Reaction score
739
Location
Mesa, AZ
I don't really get the craze with profiling. I had the Kemper when it first came out and it was cool to profile my own amps, but I found all other profiles to be lacking for me, mostly because they were dialed in by someone else using their own gear. It's a great tool for being able to get your studio tone in a live setting but other than that, I'd much rather have a model recreating the actual amp so I can dial it in how I would if it were in front of me.
 

trem licking

SS.org Regular
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
1,136
Reaction score
829
Location
MI
modelling is just as good as profiling, sound-wise. yeah sure, it's neat that software and plug-ins are doing it as well now, but it's just not necessary with the quality of modelling available. much less flexible too
 

Universe74

SS.org Regular
Joined
Jun 26, 2004
Messages
756
Reaction score
94
Location
Comox, BC
So, I opened a thread pertaining to presets and demos using the helix... But not a soul has responded.

Soooo, if more of you would like to share your presets or details, I'd be happy to try them out 🙌

I'm new to the helix, so honestly, I haven't dialed in anything that makes me think it's better than Neural DSP stuff 😅

I hear that it is, but struggle to agree so far, due to the controls or GUI.
Facebook has a 40k Helix member group. "Line 6 Helix Family User Group OFFICIAL and ORIGINAL"
 

Universe74

SS.org Regular
Joined
Jun 26, 2004
Messages
756
Reaction score
94
Location
Comox, BC
Not going to lie I think the helix sounded better in that example. I honestly think it's down to the cabs in this example.
Agree...second is too boomy. At any rate the various EQ's available would get you the second tone on the Helix.
 

vertibration

SS.org Regular
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
458
Reaction score
285
Location
Long Island NY
modelling is just as good as profiling, sound-wise. yeah sure, it's neat that software and plug-ins are doing it as well now, but it's just not necessary with the quality of modelling available. much less flexible too
Beg to differ, im sure a lot of people would be happy with a Helix capture feature. Who knows, maybe Line 6 does something different, something unique that allows a lot more modifications
 

TheWarAgainstTime

"TWAT" for short
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
9,080
Reaction score
1,847
Location
Austin, TX
I couldn't resist picking up a copy of Native for the Black Friday price :lol: so far so good!

I've only made up a handful of basic presets, but it's been very easy to figure out the interface and dial in great tones. The new cabinet section really exceeded my expectations, so much so that I haven't even bothered loading up my normal impulses except to do a quick A/B.
 

GunpointMetal

SS.org Regular
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
3,854
Reaction score
3,112
Location
Madison, WI
I have yet to play a profiler that I didn't want to tweak beyond what sounded good with the controls available. Profiling even further homogenizes the "internet metal band" sound that a lot of people like to complain about.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2021
Messages
1,356
Reaction score
3,244
Location
Baltimore, Maryland
Beg to differ, im sure a lot of people would be happy with a Helix capture feature. Who knows, maybe Line 6 does something different, something unique that allows a lot more modifications
Nah, I'm good. I don't need a profiler..just an amp/modeller I can tweak and get good sounds. I don't even care if the models sound like the real thing. All that matters is whether or not I can use them
 

fabronaut

SS.org Regular
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
67
Reaction score
57
I dont think either is better than each other. Both can sound great. I still think Tonehub sounds best (kemper style profiler), but Im becoming instrigued by Mooer’s inexpensive tone capture features tbh.
I tried the Mooer Preamp X2 pedal (v.2) and thought it was a big step in the right direction for that type of product / price point. the software is surprisingly good -- wayyyy better than the janky but functional barebones package that I have to use with my Mooer Radar. I'll always have a soft spot for that Mooer Radar, given that it opened my eyes to the huge difference that IRs (and erm, obviously, cab + mic combinations, as that's a large part of what it's emulating) can make.

the reason why I'm mentioning the Preamp pedal and not the dedicated Mooer modeler is that you can load the proprietary Mooer captures into the Preamp pedal. I think you need one of the Mooer multiFX modeling units to create a capture though. there are a bunch out there and some were way better than others to my ears. (could be partly since I ran it all into the only tube amp FX + cab I have, as it sounded way better than the sims.) it exacerbates the EQ issue though, as you can't tweak the captures at all beyond the settings it was captured with. even moreso than the included preamp sims.

my biggest criticism with the Preamp X2 would be that the core EQ seems to be tailored to certain frequency bands, so the various preamp models all sounded very "same-y" if that makes any sense. it's as if the EQ responds in more or less the same way, no matter which model you're using? kinda like I jammed an EQ pedal into the FX loop and tried to make a Twin sound like a Rectifier or a JCM 800 by bumping certain frequencies and cutting others?

the built in cabsims were pretty meh to my ears, and it doesn't seem to handle third party IRs very well. they sell an equally priced Cabsim / IR loader pedal, so they aren't gonna be giving that functionality away for free, I guess. perhaps there isn't enough DSP / guts in the Preamp X2 to do it at a high enough fidelity to make it worthwhile. it sounds way better being fed into a tube FX return (duh, it's a preamp), as it felt very flat and unresponsive if just using an IR alone. no power section response / interaction, I guess?

anyway, I just got a Helix Stomp XL and it's amazing. the new 3.5 update is great for a novice like myself. the example patches are really helpful and having nicer presets out of the box is sweet. I'm still figuring out how to dial in a halfway decent tone based on tips (low / high shelf EQ, mic sim placement, etc.) and this is making it wayyyyy easier than physical equipment would. software UI is consistent and simple. less time spent developing / debugging fancy looking image models means more amps and effects to play with, so I'm all for that!
 

fabronaut

SS.org Regular
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
67
Reaction score
57
TL;DR summary (probably in a main Helix thread somewhere) -- new owners of Helix family products get the core software bundled for free.
if you just got your LT, just a reminder you can pick up Native for $50 right now.
$50 for Native is super reasonable. I bought an HX Stomp XL two days before the Black Friday promo, as I figured the Native discount etc. was all there would be. right after I purchased Native on Friday afternoon at the discounted rate I came across the promotion and facepalmed. lousy timing... :lol: filed a support ticket with Line 6 and politely asked if I could get the bundle given the context. they went beyond that - gave me the promo and refunded the Native purchase. fantastic customer support right there. I guess I should look at what the extended warranty costs, although I'm pretty gentle on my equipment, as I'm a bedroom player.

I rented the Helix LT for a month awhile back, thought "damn this is great -- but a bit large, given that I'm still figuring a regular pedalboard out?" I'd been waffling on buying the small HX Stomp for ages, hoping to snipe a used one for a good price. I kept thinking the smaller form factor would be ideal for how I'd integrate it. really glad I got the HX Stomp XL, it's the Goldilocks "just right" solution for me, and I wouldn't have known it until it I started messing with it.

it really isn't "just a bunch of extra switches" like I originally assumed. having all the I/O on the back makes cable routing easier / less messy. it's about the size that it's not gonna be super annoying to bring along to my buddy's place and jam, but still has all the functionality I'd want / need (and then some) if I don't want to bring a lot of stuff.

it's made my standalone tuner and a bunch of pedals I own redundant. how did I not realize how good the overdrives and some of the fuzzes were the first time around? I knew the reverbs, delays, etc. were glorious, hadn't got around to trying the pitch shifting, octave, auto-swell, etc. and they're fantastic. it can stand in for any of the pedals I own and aside from a few particular sounds, I'm way less inclined to chase after other stuff now.

goddamn, this thing is fantastic. so much to learn! super cool and useful.
 

CanserDYI

Yeah, No, Definitely.
Joined
Sep 23, 2020
Messages
5,255
Reaction score
7,739
Location
419
I have literally zero interest in Helix/Line 6 wasting time working on profiling.

The one thing that I think would be interesting, and maybe this exists, but I think it'd be cool to be able to feed a modeler a guitar track and have some sort of AI spit out a patch that gets you in the ballpark, and a signal chain to match, so you can tweak individually. I have literally ZERO idea how difficult that'd be, but that would be MUCH cooler than just taking slice of an amp sound that isn't really tweakable.

Damn, if this doesnt exist, I want credit for this!
 

Xaeldaren

SS.org Regular
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
309
Reaction score
378
Location
Ireland
I'd love to see more Line6 original amps! The Litigator is probably my favourite amp they've done (though I know people adore the Badonk - I haven't budget from the Revv amps to really get into it too much).
 

Tree

-________-
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
2,926
Reaction score
1,460
Location
Chicago, IL
I have literally zero interest in Helix/Line 6 wasting time working on profiling.

The one thing that I think would be interesting, and maybe this exists, but I think it'd be cool to be able to feed a modeler a guitar track and have some sort of AI spit out a patch that gets you in the ballpark, and a signal chain to match, so you can tweak individually. I have literally ZERO idea how difficult that'd be, but that would be MUCH cooler than just taking slice of an amp sound that isn't really tweakable.

Damn, if this doesnt exist, I want credit for this!
Not 1:1 the same, but Fractal has the EQ Match capability going on since the Axe II. That required you to ballpark your own tone first, but it’s largely the same conceptually. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was doable on a Helix/Fractal unit in the way you described. That said, to me that would take some of the fun out of it, but I sure as hell wouldn’t turn down a feature like that. :lol:
 

CanserDYI

Yeah, No, Definitely.
Joined
Sep 23, 2020
Messages
5,255
Reaction score
7,739
Location
419
Not 1:1 the same, but Fractal has the EQ Match capability going on since the Axe II. That required you to ballpark your own tone first, but it’s largely the same conceptually. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was doable on a Helix/Fractal unit in the way you described. That said, to me that would take some of the fun out of it, but I sure as hell wouldn’t turn down a feature like that. :lol:
Does the fractal tone match produce a full patch with individual amp/cab/effect blocks and where they fall in the chain?
 

Tree

-________-
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
2,926
Reaction score
1,460
Location
Chicago, IL
Does the fractal tone match produce a full patch with individual amp/cab/effect blocks and where they fall in the chain?
To my knowledge it’s just tweaking a setup you already came up with. So, you get reasonably close on your own and then it does final EQ moves to get as close as possible to the tone you’re targeting.

It might be a bit much to have a script run through all the possible gear choices, but here’s hoping for the future! :lol:
 

CanserDYI

Yeah, No, Definitely.
Joined
Sep 23, 2020
Messages
5,255
Reaction score
7,739
Location
419
To my knowledge it’s just tweaking a setup you already came up with. So, you get reasonably close on your own and then it does final EQ moves to get as close as possible to the tone you’re targeting.

It might be a bit much to have a script run through all the possible gear choices, but here’s hoping for the future! :lol:
Ohhh I totally understand what you're saying now, you build your patch and tone match just gets the last like 10%, interesting. Yeah, cool, but for me I'm not really trying to get exact tones, I just want ballpark I'm totally okay with ballpark, but sometimes I have zero idea what effect was used, what timing was done in delays/reverbs/modulations etc and it'd be cool to throw a processed final guitar track and have it reverse engineer the patch. Like you said, here's hoping for the future because I just got stoked about something that doesn't even exist, haha.
 

vertibration

SS.org Regular
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
458
Reaction score
285
Location
Long Island NY
I have literally zero interest in Helix/Line 6 wasting time working on profiling.

The one thing that I think would be interesting, and maybe this exists, but I think it'd be cool to be able to feed a modeler a guitar track and have some sort of AI spit out a patch that gets you in the ballpark, and a signal chain to match, so you can tweak individually. I have literally ZERO idea how difficult that'd be, but that would be MUCH cooler than just taking slice of an amp sound that isn't really tweakable.

Damn, if this doesnt exist, I want credit for this!
Would you be interested if Line 6 offered a full blown capture per component? No one else really does that. What if they could? I think that would be very interesting for those who may not care for profiling.

A full on capture of every knob on an amp would be doable if Line 6 had a premade block with parameters you could add, or take away dependent on the amp you are capturing. So for instance, an engl might have more parameters than a 6505, so the capture block can be edited before you make your capture so you can add all of the additional parameters to the block before the capture is made
 

GunpointMetal

SS.org Regular
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
3,854
Reaction score
3,112
Location
Madison, WI
Would you be interested if Line 6 offered a full blown capture per component? No one else really does that. What if they could? I think that would be very interesting for those who may not care for profiling.

A full on capture of every knob on an amp would be doable if Line 6 had a premade block with parameters you could add, or take away dependent on the amp you are capturing. So for instance, an engl might have more parameters than a 6505, so the capture block can be edited before you make your capture so you can add all of the additional parameters to the block before the capture is made
At that point you're literally doing component modeling (which is what L6 and Fractal already do) with extra steps, and you're making the end user do the work.
 

CanserDYI

Yeah, No, Definitely.
Joined
Sep 23, 2020
Messages
5,255
Reaction score
7,739
Location
419
Would you be interested if Line 6 offered a full blown capture per component? No one else really does that. What if they could? I think that would be very interesting for those who may not care for profiling.

A full on capture of every knob on an amp would be doable if Line 6 had a premade block with parameters you could add, or take away dependent on the amp you are capturing. So for instance, an engl might have more parameters than a 6505, so the capture block can be edited before you make your capture so you can add all of the additional parameters to the block before the capture is made
I mean if i'm going to have to tweak and find my sound anyways, who cares if it was a captured amp or the amp models they have onboard anyways if you like the end sound? I really don't care about profiling my real amps, I already have patches that get me 99% of the way there and frankly, that last 1 percent I just really don't care about. I don't really care about picking up other people's profiled amps, as I'll have to bend knobs and tweak anyways so again, might as well find the built in flavor that's already there. Just seems like a very expensive venture for helix to dive into, for very very very few people to utilize and care about :shrug: again I'm just one guy, what do I know, but i'd muuuuch rather they spend that R&D money into new cabs and amp models, new effects, bug fixes, software optimization, and BRINGING THE DAMN TUNER TO HX EDIT (Still have zero idea why this isn't a thing, sometimes my helix isn't visible from where I'm playing)
 
Last edited:

GunpointMetal

SS.org Regular
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
3,854
Reaction score
3,112
Location
Madison, WI
I mean if i'm going to have to tweak and find my sound anyways, who cares if it was a captured amp or the amp models they have onboard anyways if you like the end sound? I really don't care about profiling my real amps, I already have patches that get me 99% of the way there and frankly, that last 1 percent I just really don't care about.
And that last 1% could very well be the parts tolerance of your particular amp, or the room you're dialing it in. I can't imagine a scenario outside of a cover band where a guitarist would want/need a 1:1 tone from someone else's rig.
 


Top