ESP E-II - Where are they made?

[ZLE]

Here is another video,that is longer and much more informal.I believe it may content information about a lot of things.I like the guy the guy at 21:50,he is like : "measuring is for the noobs..."

 

[JohnColestrane]

I doubt if I should do this, but for the moment I happen to have time, so why not.
...

This photo is the Saitama factory, I would call this large.

Video 1:

1:41; since Sado, Kiso etc were closed in 2012, it's always been said that Saitama is where everything was made. Depending on the source, it's either in very close proximity or in the same building.
1:44/2:13: Sado was previously to dry ALL of the wood for every ESP product made in Japan. I don't doubt there is a similar situation going on with another warehouse.
7:24: It also isn't an Original Series neck, all current production Original Series snappers have truss rod cut outs for a wheel adjustment, that has a traditional Fender style heel adjust. As to what it is? I do not know, custom order, employee passion project? No clue.
7:42: They're not cut out by hand, no. They're still likely hand finished to an extent. What they are talking about here is the custom orders, though. The previous statement is talking about how many Snakebytes and other weird shapes they're doing, and how they still need to be touched up afterwards.
10:58: Either my eyes mistake me, or their is a very stark contrast between the tops and the bodies. Looks like veneers to me.
11:16: In the shot of all the necks, after the one that is tilted after the Ohmuro, I see what I believe to say "Snapper Edwards" written on the headstock. It's only in view for about one frame, so I could be wrong.
23:55: The title on screen is "ESP First Factory, Assembly and QC Area". You can see Navigator headstocks in the background amongst the E-II's, and later full shots of ESP's, implying this is purely an area for final assembly of everything, not just putting parts together from a different factory.

Video 2:
4:54: the full quote from the wood library section is "This is Maple. Maple, and here is rosewood. This is the one that is placed inside the neck. And then these have been cut with the CNC. This is snakebyte. Is it okay to shoot Metallica's the Vulture like this? This is used for the binding. All the fretboards here are already. The inlay part has been dug out first. Oh, this is Kirk's. It's George Lynch. It's George Lynch. You are probably familiar with these. These are relatively normal. The ordinary one is the one, uh, if it's ESP original or ESP Signature, basically we will choose a better one. It's better to compare it to the pure black one. This one is darker, but in fact, most of them are probably like this now. Yes, if there are darker ones, they are used for custom orders. In the second factory, we first looked at a large amount of pre-made wood and then classified it according to different varieties. Then there are constant temperature and humidity environments, and Burl Maple. Then here is actually only Edwards and E-II. There are many. You see, this is flame maple. Oh, there are many beautiful woods. Here, this is the production of Edwards and E-II."
Then at 17:37, you see another very similar looking wood library being spoken about as for CS. Do you not think that makes clear distinction between the wood used for E-II and CS? Once again, I do not doubt there is more wood elsewhere, just that this is what is on site. I also do not doubt that the rooms they use to store wood all look similar, but the rooms you say are the same as the above video are not.
8:37: Those inlays are also present on Horizon E-II models.
11:39: That is how b-roll is used, most things in the CS factory cannot be recorded, so you use what you can like he does at the end of the video.
12:40: That appears to be some variation of an ESP Maiden.
21:21: They clearly receive permission, as they choose to not show much footage from inside the CS. Joji Handa was there showing them the models and watching them record, it's not like they were using a hidden camera or something.
23:03; You have poorly paraphrased this quote. They go on to say that Eclipses and the like are handcut, whilst the ESP Angels are CNC. This is not true, if anything it is the opposite. There are plenty of documentation of ESP Snakebytes fresh off the CNC in these factory tours, as they still have two blocks of wood attached that need to be later cut off.

It does not appear to be the same wood storage area, there is almost 100% a different warehouse used to dry and store wood like how it used to be done in Sado. To respond to your point about only ESP Originals being shown, my answer is who the fuck would care about a black E-II M-II? You're there to see the crazy shit they do, not the models they pump out en-masse. There is next to no reason to spend extensive time documenting the boring parts. The full hand-cut bit is clearly a mistranslation when talking about Original Series using no CNC, that's not true whatsoever. It has also been said that it has changed from Chinese to Japanese manufacturing over time. The only solid information is that ESP will never tell you, that's not how they operate and they have no reason to.

"So either ESP Originals are built along side E-II and Edwards in the second factory, then Original series are not custom shop which ESP claims."
They can be built in the same factory (or one of two in very close proximity, once again, the answer seems to change) as every ESP product is. The difference is who works on them, the attention to detail, and how they are made. They would be using different staff and production lines for the different products.
This video shows the "E-II Factory", albeit only for a few seconds but you can see guitars in various levels of finishing. The dude that posted the video also works for the Australian ESP distributor.

The only answer to all of this is we don't know for sure, and we never will. Choose to believe whatever narrative suits you best.

 

[Emperoff]

What I find really interesting of this topic, is the amount of people who really wants to know the truth to judge wether the guitars are worthy of their money or not. Like, ok the price is justified if it's MIJ but no shit I'm buying this overpriced chinese crap.

Thing is... Does it matter that much? We will never know. ESP doesn't fucking care (about pretty much anything). if they did they could make a tour showing in-progress E-IIs to dispell the myths. Oh, but they could also stage it if they aren't mtyhs. So what do we have to gain anyway? Will you hold your pockets until the real truth comes out?

If the thought of E-IIs being made in China is stopping you from getting one... Your loss, I guess . As absurd as their current prices are (like everything else) you can get yourself a killer guitar between 1-2k used, which is what matters to me.

 

[Flamedmaple]

7:24: It also isn't an Original Series neck, all current production Original Series snappers have truss rod cut outs for a wheel adjustment, that has a traditional Fender style heel adjust. As to what it is? I do not know, custom order, employee passion project? No clue.

Well spotted, unless that's cut out later, we don't know then.

10:58: Either my eyes mistake me, or their is a very stark contrast between the tops and the bodies. Looks like veneers to me.
11:16: In the shot of all the necks, after the one that is tilted after the Ohmuro, I see what I believe to say "Snapper Edwards" written on the headstock. It's only in view for about one frame, so I could be wrong.

I can with certainty say that those are not vaneers. But i can't convince you.
Regarding Edwards Snapper, it would really surprise me. In the japanese Edwards video posted above they say that Edwards necks and bodies are processed at various ESP related factories, then assembled in the ESP Tokyo factory (3:51). Then, in all these videos, Edwards and E-II are always standing in common racks in this assembly part of the factory ready for the same treatment.

Then at 17:37, you see another very similar looking wood library being spoken about as for CS. Do you not think that makes clear distinction between the wood used for E-II and CS? Once again, I do not doubt there is more wood elsewhere, just that this is what is on site. I also do not doubt that the rooms they use to store wood all look similar, but the rooms you say are the same as the above video are not.
8:37: Those inlays are also present on Horizon E-II models.

One wood storage for Originals and Signature series. One wood storage for custom shop. Generally, not saying they can't overlap sometimes depending on whatever.
You're probably right about the inlays. But all E-IIs have ESP on the 12th fret.

They can be built in the same factory (or one of two in very close proximity, once again, the answer seems to change) as every ESP product is. The difference is who works on them, the attention to detail, and how they are made. They would be using different staff and production lines for the different products.
This video shows the "E-II Factory", albeit only for a few seconds but you can see guitars in various levels of finishing. The dude that posted the video also works for the Australian ESP distributor.

I think you're overcomplicating it. There are 2 divisions (second and first factory) and around 50 emplyees IIRC. I don't say that their production don't overlap at some point (we literally can't know this). But if E-IIs are the big production line, and ESP Original are the small custom shop batches of guitars, it's extremely weird that not a single guitar visible in the second factory can be tied to an E-II model (as far as i'm concerned). While they are undoubtedly building ESP Original guitars here (ESP and E-II are built in separate factories according to ESP).

The only answer to all of this is we don't know for sure, and we never will. Choose to believe whatever narrative suits you best.

I absolutely agree. Sorry i don't have time to reply to everything, i even hesitated to write my big post before. Let me know if you want to discuss something more specifically.

But as far as i can tell, E-II is Edwards for the west (basically, i know they sell in Japan too), with largely shared build and assembly process. This is my take away from this after years of following this debate on and off.

You may not share this view and that's absolutely fine.

 

[narad]

I think you guys would get a lot of the documentary, "Room 237"

 

[ZLE]

I think you guys would get a lot of the documentary, "Room 237"

Nah,we know what's in there.Spielberg told us in that movie that he made to appeal to the young gaming community.It's the equivalent of a Tele wirh Fischman Fluence.

 

[Flamedmaple]

Here's a japanese source to have a look at.

本当に日本製！？E-IIとEdwardsの生産国の真実

ESPの国内限定廉価ブランドEdwards。 ちなみに海外でのESPの廉価ブランドはLTDです。 そしてE-IIは主にアメリカ市場を意識したブランド。 ESPの価格が高騰し過ぎて、廉価版との差が広がったため、その従来のESPのプライスゾーン

yoshblog.com

He's a former music store emplyee from Japan with over a decade of experience. Here he confronts ESP international business statement regarding E-II.

Do the translation for yourselves. But....

"And I think Edwards and E-II are recognized as MADE IN JAPAN."
"And neither of these is purely domestic."
"GrassRoots ... Manufactured in a Chinese factory as it is"
"Edwards and E-II are produced in the same factory as this Grass Roots."
"Edwards, E-II ... Set up in Japan manufactured in a Chinese factory"

 

[couverdure]

So from what I understand all this time is that ESP Standard, LTD Elite, and E-II guitars are just Edwards guitars that are made to be sold overseas while still retaining the branding domestically to maintain consistency with the models. Is that the conclusion so far?

 

[Kagami]

So from what I understand all this time is that ESP Standard, LTD Elite, and E-II guitars are just Edwards guitars that are made to be sold overseas while still retaining the branding domestically to maintain consistency with the models. Is that the conclusion so far?

The conclusion is: If you like it and the price is right, buy it. Don't worry about where it's made since it's all market segmentation/branding bs anyway.

 

[Emperoff]

So from what I understand all this time is that ESP Standard, LTD Elite, and E-II guitars are just Edwards guitars that are made to be sold overseas while still retaining the branding domestically to maintain consistency with the models. Is that the conclusion so far?

The conclusion is: "Go play the goddamn guitar"

 

[zw470]

The conclusion is: "Go play the goddamn guitar"

Gross, you guys actually play your guitars?

 

[Emperoff]

Gross, you guys actually play your guitars?

A lot less than I'd like

But all my guitars get fire-baptised (gigged), so hell yeah. Including my chinese E-IIs!