Dream Theater

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by p0ke, May 23, 2018.

  1. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    I meant that Petrucci and Petrucci/Portnoy were the wrong choices for producer.
     
  2. Zalbu

    Zalbu More time than skill

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    Might as well use this thread while it's here, but what are some fairly easy Dream Theater songs to learn on 6 string guitar? I've been looking at Pull Me Under and Overture 1928, minus Petruccis fast solo runs, but they're slightly out of my skill level so I'm looking for something slightly easier than those songs.
     
  3. p0ke

    p0ke 7-string guitard

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    The Root of All Evil is pretty easy and fun to play. That said, I pretty much only practiced the main riff :) Pretty much all of Train of Thought (apart from This Dying Soul I guess) is on 6 strings in C-tuning, I think, so if you're looking for more metal stuff, that'd be something to look at.
     
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  4. Avedas

    Avedas SS.org Regular

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    IIRC most of Octavarium and Systematic Chaos are on 6 strings and not too much is crazy hard in there.
     
  5. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    The Silent Man almost works around the campfire.
    Disappear is pretty easy to play, if you don't mind the unique vibe the song has.
    I'd say that the band is notorious for not writing songs that are easy, at all, to play. 99% of their catalogue is more difficult to play on guitar than 99% of what one would hear on the radio.
    I mean, I wouldn't call those two songs you mentioned easy to play, really by any standard.
     
  6. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    Overture 1928 is easy by DT standards and sounds GREAT. I was never someone that could do solo runs, but I played that song all the time. There was only one bar I had to fudge. I usually played Strange Deja Vu right after it too, that's also really fun and six string friendly.

    Home has a lot of cool stuff, but it's got a lot more stuff you'd have to skip. I used to just play the parts of songs that I could and it was fine with me. Scarred is another great one (skipped most of the solo obv) and Silent Man as previously mentioned. Lines in the Sand is also fantastic, and that solo is actually playable (and sounds great).
     
  7. p0ke

    p0ke 7-string guitard

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    Same here. I also used to play Panic Attack a lot back in the day, up to the guitar-keyboard unison parts :lol: That's definitely a 7-string tune though, but fun to play. Played it on drums too back in the day.
    Going a bit off the question, but IMO The Glass Prison has lots of fun parts to play too. That was the first DT song I heard and it took me ages to learn the riffs :lol: Lots of good technique exercise too. At one point I had all the actual riffs down, but that still leaves like a typical radio song's worth of wankery to learn :lol: Actually I recall the most difficult riff being the one that's played under the solo :lol:
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  8. Exchanger

    Exchanger SS.org Regular

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    -Voices is quite doable except for the little runs during the heavy passages
    -Forsaken (Standard D)
    -Repentance. On this one the solo is also accessible I'd say.
    -Root of All Evil (Standard D#- I love palying this one)
    -Sacrified Sons - some parts are a bit hairy (can't do it all 100% myself) but altogether fun to play
     
  9. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    Voices is doable, but it's so damn boring! Scarred is very similar but much more interesting IMO.

    All of Images and Words is six string, but I never really learned any of it apart from Metropolis, which is MOSTLY doable. There's a big ascending and descending run at some point in the middle, but IIRC the rest of it was all very playable. Strangely, I think it was the easiest song on the album if you count solos. Pull Me Under I think might have been doable, but I don't remember the song very clearly as I never really played it.

    Awake was mostly 6 string apart from The Mirror, Lie, and Caught in a Web, if I remember right. And then FII was for all intents and purposes all 6 string besides Just Let Me Breathe and New Millennium (I've seen tabs of Lines in the Sand for 7 string, but it sounds damn near identical if you just don't play the handful of low Ds on the chords in the pre-verse riffs). Metropolis II, I think it was just Dance of Eternity that had 7-string on it??? SDOIT is more of a crapshoot since it had some alternate tunings on it along with a couple seven-string songs on it, and then TOT has so many obnoxious alternate tunings and 7 string songs that it's not worth it unless you love retuning. So yeah, you could just listen to whatever songs you like on the first bunch of albums and if it's not one of the above you're good.
     
  10. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Voices is a moderately difficult song to play. Some of the parts in the second verse riff are finger-pushers (~3 1/2 min in), also the solo. I can see why you might be bored by the song, but it was one of my favourites off the album. There are some changes to learn, but I think fewer than a typical DT song.

    Metropolis is a very difficult song to play. I guess if you are able to memorize all of the changes, it's "doable," but, I mean, there are so many changes in the song that I can't even tell you how many there are, and it'd be a very time consuming task to count them. It's especially dense after the 4 minute mark, and then at the 6 minute mark, it steps up another notch in difficulty. I think calling the song "easy" would be a stretch, to say the least. Might as well learn to play "A Change of Seasons," IMO.

    Pull me under has some difficult passages in in once you get into it.

    Well said. Basically, early early DT is standard 6 string, their late early period is 7 string and 6 string standard with maybe a little drop d here and there, then after that, JP got a warehouse full of differently-tuned EB/MM guitars and every third song was in a different tuning.

    EDIT: I fail at quoting multiple passages, evidently. Maybe that's why these songs with hundreds of changes seem so difficult to me. :lol:
     
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  11. Zalbu

    Zalbu More time than skill

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    I know that DT don't really have any "easy" songs but they offer a good challenge and Petrucci is one of the best guys to learn from, I love the chord voicings he uses for big chords. I would say that Overture 1928 and Pull Me Under are some of DT's easier songs, aside from the fast solo runs, but I'll keep working on them and just skip the impossible parts for now. Root Of All Evil feels pretty doable as well.

    I should take out my hardtail and learn some songs from their edgy phase as well. Is Train of Thought played on detuned 6 strings or sevens? I think they used a buttload of different tunings on that one if I remember correctly.
     
  12. Exchanger

    Exchanger SS.org Regular

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    Sure it's not the most interesting song, but I'd definitely recommand working on it, just to get familiar with all these juicy open strings chords and voicings
     
  13. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    I really enjoyed playing the crunchy riffs, but not the whole intro or the chorus. Ah well. I'd frequently do playthroughs of much of the album, and I didn't skip that one, so it was fun enough! I usually skipped 6:00 cause the tabs were confusing (despite the main riff being awesome), and same deal with Innocence Faded (the tab had all the lead guitar harmonizing written out so it was really confusing to read the tabs and it had way too few measures on a page). Plus, that one has crummy riffs!

    I didn't think about it in terms of time changes, I just had the song internalized, I guess. When you look at a tab, especially a text one, you just see a big stream of eighth notes and not how the time changes during them. So, I'd just listen to it while playing along, and thus nothing would jar me besides that section with the crystal clear chords held for odd time intervals. I'd have to think about it to tell you what the time sigs were, that's for sure, but I could still play it rhythmically. If you were trying to learn it from scratch using REAL music you would have a rough go of it!

    It was a similar deal with the likes of Strange Deja Vu and Beyond this Life. I had them memorized, so the stream of time changes just never affected me - it was just a whole bunch of eighth notes I had memorized!

    I do remember some rising unison stuff later in it, but not really how hard it was. As I didn't really like the song, I never really tried.

    I vaguely remember trying to play Take the Time once or twice, immediately going F THIS before I got out of the intro, and never trying again. I think it was pretty damn hard. :p Learning to Live was always torpedoed by the fact that the tab book is absolutely HORRIBLE, like, it seems like the guy listened to the song once and then tried to recreate the whole thing from memory without cross-referencing it again, and most of the tabs out there were derived from it. There eventually was a pretty good guitar tab on ptabs.net for it, but that was at about the end of my dream theater fandom so I don't clearly remember how hard it was. I really liked playing the first few minutes and that lengthy harmonics outro, I can't really remember what the middle parts were like.

    :lol:

    As someone who only had a 7 string for most of his formative years, and said 7 string had a floyd rose, ToT wasn't even worth trying. Retuning was the devil!!! It was too bad, too, since I thought a lot of riffs on Honor Thy Father were totally awesome. But C standard? That's in that area where the strings would get too floppy, and I wouldn't want to bother cause I had no other songs I wanted to play in that tuning at all. C standard. Kiss my ass, John Petrucci!!! If it was B standard, I could have just detuned the G and been good to go.
     
  14. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    I used to play The Glass Prison a ton. And yes, the f'in solo riffs are SO hard. Like, I could never even come CLOSE to playing that stuff. I could come close to playing the big section of quintuplets in Erotomania and the intro lead part on the Glass Prison (somewhere around 90% tempo or something for both), but not those solo riffs. The string skipping pattern on that part was BRUTAL.
     
  15. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    ^ I've come across some versions of DT songs on youtube that were somehow a half step lower... as if someone pitch shifted everything down. I'm not sure why those exist or how to find them, but I know there's at least a version of the Mirror in Bb.
     
  16. scrub

    scrub SS.org Regular

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    For ToT -7 string standard, D-Standard, C-Standard, maybe a E-standard thrown in? Can't recall
     
  17. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    Sometimes people do that to get around youtube scanning their stuff for copyrighted material. There are a LOT of videos uploaded at like, 1.25 speed for that reason, and the description will say "play at .75 speed!!!" to get it back to normal. :p

    There are plenty of programs out there that pitch shift stuff, some even well, I just couldn't use them back in the day cause I was playing along with the CDs instead of my computer. IIRC even the ancient program Transcribe! can do it smoothly.
     
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  18. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    An old PC of mine had a DVD player application that could pitch shift quite well, which was handy in the cover band with whom I was playing at the time, since some songs we performed were a half step off of the recording. I was amazed at how different some singers sounded when pitch shifted a half step.
     
  19. groverj3

    groverj3 Biologist/Guitarist

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    In The Presence of Enemies Pt. 1's unisons have been my bane for roughly 10 years :lol:.

    The earlier one is flight of the bumblebees-esque, and I can only really ever seem to do it at 85% speed max.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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  20. groverj3

    groverj3 Biologist/Guitarist

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    For me, the most playable DT songs are:

    1. Overture 1928 (only has like one very tricky solo part, and you can sweep it if you're not JP level at crosspicking 1 note per string arpeggios)
    2. The Root of All Evil (tapping bit is hit or miss)
    3. Forsaken (solo is tricky with a sneaky tapped lick and is never tabbed correctly for timing or actual notes)
    4. Pull Me Under

    I tend to learn isolated riffs/licks from JP's playing more than full songs though. His note choices often lead to awkward fingerings, IMHO. Especially when he just decides to cram some random number of notes into a run that aren't even triplets or sextuplets.

    I've always wanted to play These Walls. It might be the easiest song of theirs to play if it wasn't written on a baritone (or some weird bass-like thing?). I think you could probably play it on a 7-string down one step though. I'm just not about to mess with my tunings when I have mine set up nice. An excuse to buy another guitar if I've ever heard one.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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