Diezel: D-Moll or VH2?

narojo

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Hi all, I am trying to make a decision on what Diezel amp to add to the arsenal. Last weekend I was considering buying D-Moll, but now I see a VH2 for sale, and actually, I even see a Herbert and a Hagen for not too much more. But I am budgeting around $2500 used. I just love the simplicity and aesthetics of the VH2, but you clearly get more bang for your buck with the D-Moll in terms of features and tweakability, but perhaps less versatility? I love the sound of both, but can only afford 1. I have absolutely no use for 180w on guitar even though the Herbert seems ideal. If I had all the money in the world, to pick any Diezel amp, I'd probably reach directly for a VH4, but I'm sure someone much wiser and more experienced than me might suggest something else, and that's something I'd like to know before spending that kind of money.

Some considerations I'm making:
- Prog Metal - modern metal tones needed, but also versatility
- I'll seldom go below G#, but need some muscle and resonance for Drop A and Drop C tunings.
- My main rig is a Peavey 6505+ into a slanted traditional Mesa; vintage 30s. I also have a vintage 60s Univox with G12H30 and a Celestion Blue. Sometimes I do AB them for cleans because the Univox is juuuuust right with some magic tube breakup.
- Ideally whatever I would get would also have a great clean channel so I have all ground covered in a single 100w amp.
- In addition to that, I also have a Revv G20. It's great for practice and recording, but I don't think I would ever use this standalone live, as great as it sounds. I prefer 60-100w tube for the mix. Very convenient to run a cab sim into a monitor in a pinch.
- Not really looking to replace anything I've got. Not sure if I want to buy another cab just to match the Diezel, although I'm not completely ruling it out. If it won't match the Mesa cab at all, it's sort of a deal breaker.
- Just want the Diezel I buy to match, blend, and pair well with what I've already got.

ProsCons
VH2- VH4 Channel 3 - need I say more?
- Has the Paul's clean channel; I previously considered the Paul but I need 100w.
- Simpler switch and simpler interface = more intuitive and easier experience performing
- Costs $700 more than the D-Moll. Worth that much more?
- Heavy and High Gain sound, but not as heavy as the D-Moll
D-Moll- Additional channel
- Midcut
- Midi switching
- Cheaper option
- The amp width wouldn't be flush with my Mesa cab, man what a bummer
- Midcut; is it useful in the mix? I've heard so much hate on this topic.


Any insight will help me to decide. Thanks!
 
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FitRocker33

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I can’t add too much in depth opinion to this, but a while ago I decided to try scratching my diezel itch with a d-moll and ordered one from Sweetwater. Had it for a couple of days and tried almost everything to not make it sound flubby but failed. Even a boost barely helped. I couldn’t send it back fast enough. I’ve heard the Herbert is tighter sounding but there is an artificial “plasticky” sound to the diezels I can’t get past myself…therefore they are not for me..ymmv
 

narojo

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I can’t add too much in depth opinion to this, but a while ago I decided to try scratching my diezel itch with a d-moll and ordered one from Sweetwater. Had it for a couple of days and tried almost everything to not make it sound flubby but failed. Even a boost barely helped. I couldn’t send it back fast enough. I’ve heard the Herbert is tighter sounding but there is an artificial “plasticky” sound to the diezels I can’t get past myself…therefore they are not for me..ymmv
Oh man that would be a real bummer to pay all that money and then be disappointed. I am a bit worried about that and have experienced similar sentiments before. It really is a love-hate thing. I felt similarly about my Fender American Precision bass, but I kept it, and actually learned to love it. Just needed a GK 1001 RB to go with it!
 

Crungy

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I have no Diezel experience but hear you on P basses. You either learn to love them or you ever touch one again lol
 

rokket2005

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I've had my VH4 for like 5 years, and if you are coming from a 6505 expecting modern tones you will probably be disappointed. Despite what everyone on the internet says, even channel 3 of the VH4 isn't voiced like a modern hi gain amp. It's an extension of the SLO/boosted Marshall thing with more lowend on tap and weird fuzzy mids. It's a great amp that can do a lot of things, but surgically tight modern metal tones is not it.
 

Emperoff

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OK, let's set this up straight: Any amp released after 1989 is still marketed as "modern", despite being 30 years old.

The Diezels are not modern-sounding amps by today's standards. They were for 90-00's standards, where people wanted lots of gain, scooped tones, and tuned to B at most. They are not tight sounding at all. They are kinda like the european Mesa. Big and huge sounding, and very compressed.

The reason so many US folks get dissappointed by them is that they expect them to be a ultimate boutique 5150s or something due to such pricetags and "modern tone" promises. Import taxes add like 2k in price to them, and they certainly don't sound like a 5150.
 
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MatrixClaw

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I haven't tried the D-Moll, but have played the VH4 many, many times. The VH4 is a cool amp, but I definitely don't get the hype. It sounds good, don't get me wrong, but in the US it's a terrible value for the price IMO. I don't know where you are, but if you're in Europe, you can disregard that statement. I owned the Herbert Mk I and it was a really cool amp. I heard a guy play one in Guitar Center 7 years before and never forgot about it. By the time I could afford to pick one up, I was fairly underwhelmed. It had a HUGE sound, but those mids were just so hollow. Later, I traded a Mesa Road King for an Einstein and I'd definitely akin that amp to more of a 3-channel Mesa sound. Its high gain channel is suuuuuper boomy, but sounds huge. I think the other channels were really lost on me at the time because I was only looking to do metal - now I'd really love to pick one up again as I think I'd have a ton of fun on the other settings. That said, if I were to buy a currently-produced Diezel amp now, the only one I'd even consider is the Hagen. Loved that amp.
 

The Thing Upstairs

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I've owned a dmoll, it was a great amp but I ended up selling it after a year.

No one here can tell you what to get. Buy from somewhere with a returns policy and try one.

If I was after a Diezel now, it'd be Herbert or Hagen for me
 

narojo

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I've had my VH4 for like 5 years, and if you are coming from a 6505 expecting modern tones you will probably be disappointed. Despite what everyone on the internet says, even channel 3 of the VH4 isn't voiced like a modern hi gain amp. It's an extension of the SLO/boosted Marshall thing with more lowend on tap and weird fuzzy mids. It's a great amp that can do a lot of things, but surgically tight modern metal tones is not it.
I struggle to articulate exactly what I am looking for in a Diezel. Maybe an analogy about cars can help here. If I could find a 1980s Camaro stick shift in mint condition, I'd buy it. I love the aesthetics, I love the way it was designed, and I love the way it feels when you drop the clutch. I love the loud aggressive motor and exhaust. Leather seats, hot babes in the back seat or whatever. Seems ideal!

I can't afford a Camaro. I drive a Honda Si, which I love, but it doesn't quite take me to the climax. My Audi A4 got me closer, but it was a PITA to do the work - and I did it all. From timing belts to you-name-it. I'll admit, I think German engineering is next-gen and something to marvel. There is a bias there. I was a German major in college, lol. Man, I sure miss the Audi, but I'm pretty happy with the Honda, I will admit. I am more certain I will buy a Diezel, for reasons analogous to why I'd buy the Camaro, though.
 

narojo

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OK, let's set this up straight: Any amp released after 1989 is still marketed as "modern", despite being 30 years old.

The Diezels are not modern-sounding amps by today's standards. They were for 90-00's standards, where people wanted lots of gain, scooped tones, and tuned to B at most. They are not tight sounding at all. They are kinda like the european Mesa. Big and huge sounding, and very compressed.

The reason so many US folks get dissappointed by them is that they expect them to be a ultimate boutique 5150s or something due to such pricetags and "modern tone" promises. Import taxes add like 2k in price to them, and they certainly don't sound like a 5150.
I feel old haha

Oh man, we're going to have to find common ground. I absolutely can't stand the way Mesa amps sound, but I love their cabs. The clean channel is great, but I don't like their high gain sound and I don't like playing through one. I prefer the Peavey high gain sound over the Mesa. On the other hand, I absolutely LOVE the Diezel sound, and to my ears, it is noticeably different from the Mesa sound. Have I ever played through shitty amps that I hated? Yes. They were Bugeras, Oranges, and mostly just really dark sounding amps, but hey, it could have been the cabs, too.

There's a couple Diezel clone VSTs I've played that I've really enjoyed, but there really aren't opportunities near me to try an actual amp out. I think I'm mitigating risk by buying a used one, and I can resell it if I am not happy with it. I just don't want to do that more than once or twice.
 

Kosthrash

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If it's not clearly a dilemma to you between the 2 Diezels, you may want to check also the H&K Tubemeister Deluxe 40 (3-channel Guitar Head with Selectable 40/18/5/1 Watts, Power Soak, Effects Loop, and Built-in Red Box DI)...

Much cheaper too!!!

 

BrutalRob

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I used to have a d dmoll and think Iwould like another one these days, but only because i got that super tight sound covered with my kaos amps stuff.
Channel 2 was definately crisper, dryer, than channel 3 (or rather 2.5) which was thicker in the mids, chewier, more of a lead channel while 2nd channel would be somewhat suited for tighter rhythm stuff. cleans were fine iirc, but never really used them so take that with a grain of salt.
 

narojo

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I used to have a d dmoll and think Iwould like another one these days, but only because i got that super tight sound covered with my kaos amps stuff.
Channel 2 was definately crisper, dryer, than channel 3 (or rather 2.5) which was thicker in the mids, chewier, more of a lead channel while 2nd channel would be somewhat suited for tighter rhythm stuff. cleans were fine iirc, but never really used them so take that with a grain of salt.
I think I want a Hagen now, lol. Like an updated VH4, cheaper, 4 channel. The only thing is I don't quite like the black front plate with white knobs. Maybe just swap the knobbers for blue ones? I think it's worth paying a bit more for this one. Seems like a better fit and a couple peeps here already recommend them.
 

StevenC

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These are my 2 least favourite Diezels and I've played all of them extensively except the Hagen and VH Mini.

If you're looking at a D-Moll, get a Paul instead. If you want a VH2 for that sound, it does it and the clean is good but that's about it. Definitely cover the least ground of any of their amps (except maybe Big Max).

I would recommend a Herbert or Hagen.
 

protest

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If you want to go Diezel for the sounds you're looking for I would go with the Herbert. I liked the Mk. I significantly more than the the Mk.II, but the Mk. II was from Guitar Center and showed up broken.

If you're considering any other brands I would say a Mesa Mark or KSR. If you can deal with just an ok clean channel then the newer ENGL Savage would also work.
 

narad

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All I know is I heard VH4s described as surgical and tight for forever. That was like -the- adjective people put on them. So I find it weird to hear them called flubby or loose.
 

Emperoff

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All I know is I heard VH4s described as surgical and tight for forever. That was like -the- adjective people put on them. So I find it weird to hear them called flubby or loose.

And that is exactly the problem (and the reason why people get disappointed by them).

As I said, anything post 1989 is still marketed as modern in the amp world. Diezels took a long time to be known outside Europe due to their prohibitive price tag (due to import taxes), and by then the term "modern" had changed. "Modern" was no longer the big fat and scooped late 90's recto sound, it was the surgically tight 5150 sound.
 
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narojo

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So guys, I managed to negotiate the price on a used Hagen down to 3000. Waiting for the bank to open on Monday so I can make a debit purchase that large, but basically the deal is done! Super stoked because the Hagen, according to Peter Stapfer, is a more modern rendition of the VH4 - engineered 18 years after the VH4 came to market. A couple peeps here recommended them, and the only thing I dislike about it is minor cosmetic things that I can change. But that's based on pics alone - maybe I will love the looks more in person. Super pumped!

If I want surgical tight, I can dial my Revv in to do that guys. I can go direct in and avoid the cab troubles with a cab sim. On the other hand I have the Peavey for most practical metal purposes.
 


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