Are hair ties cheating??

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by dougsteele, Jul 11, 2008.

  1. dougsteele

    dougsteele Doug Steele Forum MVP

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    Greg Howe does it. Andy James, Loomis, a lot of dudes are using the goddamn hair tie during solos. What happens when they kick back into the rhythm?

    And now I see dudes who are dampening behind the nut to stop the notes from sustaining. I can see that being useful for tight meshuggah style rhythms, but the hair tie during solos has me fucking baffled. Back in the day I would have laughed at that shit.

    So, it's cool now? I'm outta the loop, please help.
     
  2. The Dark Wolf

    The Dark Wolf Contributor

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    It really helps during tapping...

    And I guess I can see it for solos, maybe in the studio.

    But live?
     
  3. Zak1233

    Zak1233 Contributor

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    guthrie govan uses em live but only during certain pieces of his songs like the tapping part from "seven" the weird thing is he forgot to put the hair band on his neck once while he played that tapping part and it still sounded super clean so i guess its a habit and for him must make the notes a little cleaner
     
  4. dougsteele

    dougsteele Doug Steele Forum MVP

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    That dude is the king. I don't even know he did that.
     
  5. Zak1233

    Zak1233 Contributor

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    amen to that:agreed:
     
  6. Uber Mega

    Uber Mega Try my fist! Contributor

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    Yeah, i figure if Guthrie does it then "cheating" doesn't come into it...There's going to be some licks you play (tapping especially) where it's impossible to get a properly clean sound, even if you're Guthrie, so the hair band comes in use temporarily. Paul Waggoner and Dave Martone do it aswell, damn, a shed load of guitarists i listen to do! They just slide it quickly from the nut when required, then slide it quickly back...i've never got the hang of that.
     
  7. dougsteele

    dougsteele Doug Steele Forum MVP

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    Fuck that, I'll have the singer run over and mute the first fret. I'm not much of a tapper anyways, so I think I'm safe.
     
  8. Celiak

    Celiak SS.org Regular

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    I'm not sure...
    I do it for recordings because I don't like to have redo good takes because I didn't mute something right. Doing it live seems a like a bad idea for me because it doesn't have to be as perfect and screwing around with a hair band could lead to worse mistakes.
     
  9. PeteLaramee

    PeteLaramee AssMaster General

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    I started thinking about using them when I started playing guitars w/Floyds because all the strings vibrate a little more. Once I started playing 7 strings w/Floyds I pretty much had to start using a damper to limit the string noise especially on the low B. If you sweep/tap a C minor 7 arpeggio and hear a little of the low b and e ringing it's going to sound like caca.

    ...IMHO.

    ...and yes I use them live w/out any problems.
     
  10. Mattayus

    Mattayus Sir Groove-A-Lot Contributor

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    i just do the satch trick of grabbing the neck with my picking hand and doing some nuts legato! looks impressive too, even though you're sorta cheating :lol:
     
  11. Scali

    Scali Banned

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    Especially for Greg Howe, the hair tie is just a part of his playing style.
    The kind of string-skipping tapped sequence he does are just impossible to do without some kind of damper.
    If you need it for playing 'normal' stuff, then yea, I'd say it's cheating.

    Speaking of Guthrie Govan... His video of Fives on Youtube, for Bluesjamtracks... you can see the green hair tie on his guitar, behind the nut, but he doesn't ever use it, not even during the sickest string-skipping legato stuff in that song. That man is SOOO clean.

    I myself just try to make the best of it without a hair tie. Never had one, never tried one. I'm nowhere near as good as Greg Howe or Guthrie Govan anyway, and I don't think the answer lies in a hair tie :)
     
  12. Thrashmanzac

    Thrashmanzac plays in 69/42

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    i use strapping tape to dampen behind the nut, but i only really play rhythm, sounds like a helpfull trick, but not cheating. like a radioactive pick that somehow sustains as much as you want...
     
  13. drmosh

    drmosh Sir Paul of the Mosh Contributor

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    Jennifer Batten once said the best hair tie was her producers thumb :)

    And MAB "invented" those string dampener things that attach to the headstock which I guess he still uses
     
  14. Leec

    Leec Woopah! Contributor

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    I think if the part you're playing would be full of unintended noise without one, so much so that the part would sound like shite, you've gone too far. In my reckoning, aides that artificially clean up your playing are not very different to DragonForce’s approach to recording; recording parts by using equipment you otherwise can’t play cleanly/properly.

    For the most part, I don’t think this is the way Howe or Govan, or their likes, are using them. As someone above said, they’re probably using them because to their strict ears, it sounds like arse without one. Probably for the rest of us mere mortals, it’d still be great playing.

    Personally, I use a cloth over the neck when recording tapping parts that have string skipping, but that’s just because of the cold, hard light of the studio, and I want it as perfect as possible in the shortest time. When playing those parts live, however, I’m never faced with a situation where it sounds very different to the recording; hopefully not much at all.
     
  15. TomAwesome

    TomAwesome I LIKE JUICE!!!

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    It does help a lot for tapping. Hell, Michael Angelo Batio has dampeners built onto his guitar that do the same thing.
     
  16. Desecrated

    Desecrated Guest

    Nothing is cheating, if you see it that way, having a seven string is cheating because it makes lower voicing more simple. A capo is also cheating then and the pick is probably cheating to, real guitarist can play with their fingers and nail, having a piece of plastic sounds like cheating to me then.

    I use both capo, more strings, dampener, pick and one of those foot support for classical guitar. I'm a cheater.
     
  17. WillingWell

    WillingWell SS.org Regular

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    You know when I was getting more into the intermediate/advanced tapping stuff I considered this myself. I came to the conclusion that if Michael Romeo can pull off the crazy ass tapped runs he does with no help, then I don't need to either.

    I don't consider a lot on guitar "cheating" but hair bands are one of the few things I do.
     
  18. darren

    darren Decibel Guitars Forum MVP

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    Do people accuse piano players of "cheating" because their instruments include string mutes to dampen sympathetic vibrations?
     
    playstopause likes this.
  19. MerlinTKD

    MerlinTKD EIght.Fold.Path / Hinge Theory Contributor

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    The Amazing EBow ;)



    I use hair ties, even as a drummer! They keep the hair out of my face.... :squint:
     
  20. HighGain510

    HighGain510 Contributor

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    The people I've seen use them (i.e. Guthrie Govan and Andy James) sound amazing so if it helps keep their tapping clean I'm all for it!

    Also FWIW one some guitars certain factors (like headstock angle) almost require that foam be put underneath the strings behind the nut to keep unwanted noise out during stop/start rhythmic patterns. :2c: If it keeps out noise I don't want to hear I don't consider it cheating at all. :)
     

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