Anyone watching the big game tonight?

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nightflameauto

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Pop quiz time! will the 25% auto tariffs:

a) generate 100B revenue while bringing back the golden age of American auto manufacturing
b) crash the auto industry as people either cannot or will not buy cars 25% more expensive than they are now

place your bets!
Haven't been anywhere near being able to buy new cars for most of my adult life. I'd bet used car sales are going to increase to the point where there won't be lots full of them anymore while the new car sales drop like an absolute bomb as more of the general population is priced out of new car prices.
 

Drew

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Circling back to the current “big news story” though… it’s just wild that top defense individuals are not held to the same standards as your average Joe. My company does use signal for communications but if I fucked up so badly to accidentally include an outside organization/individual in a group chat for even basic day to day stuff from within my company I’d not only be fired on the spot but likely be getting boned with some litigation as well
Quoting this because it's as good a point as any:

I think this story officially has legs. Someone will go down for the Trump team.

One, polling suggests Americans of all political stripes think it's a big deal.



74% of Americans think it's at least "somewhat of a big deal," including 60% of Republicans. That breaks out as 28% of Republicans think it's a "very big deal," and 32% "somewhat of a big deal." 54% of Independents think this is a very big deal. This is polling as a more serious issue than either the Clinton email scandal, or the Trump classified documents one. Turns out, if you risk the American military, people care.

Fox is turning too. Tomi Lahren has run out of patience with the attempts to dodge the issue, and so far her remedy is just "admit the fuck up and move on," but when Fox stops defending Trump, Trump is going to have problems.



One of the long-standing truisms we'v e had talking about the Trump administration for years now is the day Fox turns on them, is the day they stop getting away with shit. That's happening.
 

MetalDestroyer

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One of the long-standing truisms we'v e had talking about the Trump administration for years now is the day Fox turns on them, is the day they stop getting away with shit. That's happening.
I think that may have been true for the first term, but we're beyond that now. They're in no turning back territory, they hold power or go to jail - or at least go down in a storm of legal problems. We've already seen this happen with the term 1 scapegoats, and in comparison to what the members of this administration are doing that was all child's play.

Realistically, if they keep calling out this admin I think we're headed for Fox being added to Trump's list of no good very bad journalists, and the establishment of a state propaganda administration in its place
 

nightflameauto

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I think that may have been true for the first term, but we're beyond that now. They're in no turning back territory, they hold power or go to jail - or at least go down in a storm of legal problems. We've already seen this happen with the term 1 scapegoats, and in comparison to what the members of this administration are doing that was all child's play.

Realistically, if they keep calling out this admin I think we're headed for Fox being added to Trump's list of no good very bad journalists, and the establishment of a state propaganda administration in its place
I would assume there's a better than average chance the Fox ownership will start stamping out careers and replacing them with nodding heads. Trump won't need to establish a propaganda arm when Fox can just willy-nilly fire anybody stepping the wrong way on air or in commentary elsewhere.
 

wankerness

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Pop quiz time! will the 25% auto tariffs:

a) generate 100B revenue while bringing back the golden age of American auto manufacturing
b) crash the auto industry as people either cannot or will not buy cars 25% more expensive than they are now

place your bets!
If these hold (which they won't) it's going to make cars a lot more than 25% expensive. Even domestic-made cars are getting hammered with tariffs already because of the fact they import 90% of the materials that they then put together in America. This is just compounding the problem further. It was way more expensive to build than it was last year. And now it's finished, there's an extra 25% on top of the finished product, too.
 

Ordacleaphobia

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Interesting bit of chatter on the morning news this morning. People in Fargo and the surrounding area in Teslas are getting flipped off in traffic and having garbage thrown at them. Of course, they interviewed several Tesla owners, who were quick to say, "It's too bad people let their politics dictate how they treat other people." [...]
Then they spoke with a Tesla Owners Club (WHAT?) in Fargo. They're helping their members arm themselves by hooking them up with local gun dealers to protect them from the big meanies. Is this how the revolution starts? Tesla owners firing at somebody for flipping them off in traffic or tossing an empty coffee cup at their supposedly bullet proof Cybertruck? I think two or three of those incidents, which are bound to happen with how hyped up these folks seemed, will be enough to see the angry birds turning into armed assaults in both directions.
There's a lot of minimizing what's happening in this post.
We all know they aren't just 'getting trash thrown at their cars by big meanies'. People are torching entire lots and shops, keying and damaging cars, harassing people in the street, you name it. And everyone knows how road rage works- you never know how something is going to escalate when someone decides that today is the day that they're going to become a political activist at 70 MPH.

Yeah the guys throwing trash are not a huge deal (though still completely unacceptable); but the people that are torching cars are literally domestic terrorists, and what you're seeing with all this is a direct result of their actions. If I was watching all of this happen to people just because they were driving the same car I drive, you'd bet your ass I'd stay strapped too because you never know when someone is going to get carried away. And you know that type of interaction is just going to get more frequent because you have people getting emboldened by all of these other attacks in the news.

This is not ok, full stop. You can't attack and harass random civilians for the actions of an unaffiliated 3rd party and still be the good guys.
 

ElysianGuitars

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Ordacleaphobia

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If these hold (which they won't) it's going to make cars a lot more than 25% expensive. Even domestic-made cars are getting hammered with tariffs already because of the fact they import 90% of the materials that they then put together in America. This is just compounding the problem further. It was way more expensive to build than it was last year. And now it's finished, there's an extra 25% on top of the finished product, too.
Coming in right after the pandemic price spikes too, they are really going to get hammered.
I work with several auto dealerships at my job and they've been having a pretty rough go of things already over the last couple years. Nobody can afford the astronomical pricing on new vehicles. I'd say probably somewhere between a fifth and a quarter of the dealerships in town are on the verge of having to close their doors and the rest still aren't doing too hot. I have genuinely no idea how they're going to handle this, it'll be interesting to see how things shake out.
 

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Here's another act of utterly shamelessness, to be expected, of course. Remember when Trump threatened Republican legislators and called them Nazis if they supported Biden's Infrastrucure act? You already know that the same ones that voted no for it have no trouble taking credit for projects in their districts.

Here's a construction site in south downtown Seattle for Amtrak rail improvements made possible by the act. It was announced October 2024. And the current administration is, of course, gutting the system at the same time:

1743090494567.jpeg
 
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nightflameauto

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There's a lot of minimizing what's happening in this post.
We all know they aren't just 'getting trash thrown at their cars by big meanies'. People are torching entire lots and shops, keying and damaging cars, harassing people in the street, you name it. And everyone knows how road rage works- you never know how something is going to escalate when someone decides that today is the day that they're going to become a political activist at 70 MPH.

Yeah the guys throwing trash are not a huge deal (though still completely unacceptable); but the people that are torching cars are literally domestic terrorists, and what you're seeing with all this is a direct result of their actions. If I was watching all of this happen to people just because they were driving the same car I drive, you'd bet your ass I'd stay strapped too because you never know when someone is going to get carried away. And you know that type of interaction is just going to get more frequent because you have people getting emboldened by all of these other attacks in the news.

This is not ok, full stop. You can't attack and harass random civilians for the actions of an unaffiliated 3rd party and still be the good guys.
A) I minimized nothing. I spoke only of the story I saw this morning, which was literally people being flipped off and having empty coffee cups tossed at their vehicles in traffic.

B) Terrorist attacks are meant to cause terror and some people wanting to label what should be prosecuted as vandalism and destruction of property to justify sending Americans off to El Salvador (WTF?) is yet another escalation for the sake of escalation. If these people were setting fire to dealerships during broad daylight while people are in the building, maybe that would be terrorism. I haven't seen one of those stories yet, if it's happening. If it is, yes, domestic terrorism would apply.

C) If you think it's reasonable to suggest arming someone against raised middle fingers and flung coffee cups, we're in two completely different universes.

ETA: I should mention, I'm a cyclist and have been splattered by milkshakes and hit by hot coffee before while having someone scream fag at me. I never once felt the appropriate response would be to arm myself. If I can manage to react like a human to garbage being flung *AT MY BODY* on the road, i think cagers can too.
 
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Ordacleaphobia

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A) I minimized nothing. I spoke only of the story I saw this morning, which was literally people being flipped off and having empty coffee cups tossed at their vehicles in traffic.

B) Terrorist attacks are meant to cause terror and some people wanting to label what should be prosecuted as vandalism and destruction of property to justify sending Americans off to El Salvador (WTF?) is yet another escalation for the sake of escalation. If these people were setting fire to dealerships during broad daylight while people are in the building, maybe that would be terrorism. I haven't seen one of those stories yet, if it's happening. If it is, yes, domestic terrorism would apply.

C) If you think it's reasonable to suggest arming someone against raised middle fingers and flung coffee cups, we're in two completely different universes.

ETA: I should mention, I'm a cyclist and have been splattered by milkshakes and hit by hot coffee before while having someone scream fag at me. I never once felt the appropriate response would be to arm myself. If I can manage to react like a human to garbage being flung *AT MY BODY* on the road, i think cagers can too.
A- Yes, you did. Your description doesn't take into account the context of what's happening. These people aren't thinking about the empty coffee cups, they're thinking about the arsonists, which you didn't mention at all and insinuated that the response is way out of proportion; which it would be, if none of that other stuff was happening. Even just looking at the language you used you talk like these people have nothing to be concerned about and are acting completely irrationally. Maybe that isn't what you meant- but that's how it reads.

B-
1743094622140.png

I have no idea how you can make the case that this isn't terrorism. They aren't torching these buildings during the day because first and foremost they don't want to get caught, and secondly, because they don't want the heat that comes with actually hurting people. But this is absolutely at the very least a threat of violence. I agree wholeheartedly nobody should be sent to an out of state prison over this but they should absolutely get the book thrown at them here domestically. I'd even be happy with no terrorism charges but max sentences for destruction of property.

C- To help bridge this gap, in my universe, stuff like this is a precursor to future escalations and human beings are very unpredictable creatures with a capacity for very sudden violence. In such cases, it's best to be prepared and better to have it and not need it vs. need it and not have it. I'd be interested to hear how this works in your universe.

Re: Your cycling experiences; that's also totally unacceptable, but different. If there was a nationwide trend of random cyclists getting confronted and having their bikes destroyed over something that Schwinn had done or something like that, maybe that'd be more applicable- but that isn't what we're talking about. The context is the issue.
 
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Drew

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This is not ok, full stop. You can't attack and harass random civilians for the actions of an unaffiliated 3rd party and still be the good guys.
I'm not endorsing it, but... I think you also need to consider that there's at least a contingent on the left that's come to the conclusion that being "the good guys" and losing an election to someone who is willing to not be the good guys and will go farther than the good guys are willing to, accomplishes fuck all in the grander scheme of things. And, to them, appealing to their need to "be the good guys" here is going to sound hopelessly naive.

Take a quick look at TSLA's stock price and remember how much of Musk's net worth is still tied up in TSLA stock, and you can see where this is going.
 

Drew

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I have no idea how you can make the case that this isn't terrorism. They aren't torching these buildings during the day because first and foremost they don't want to get caught, and secondly, because they don't want the heat that comes with actually hurting people. But this is absolutely at the very least a threat of violence. I agree wholeheartedly nobody should be sent to an out of state prison over this but they should absolutely get the book thrown at them here domestically. I'd even be happy with no terrorism charges but max sentences for destruction of property.
The problem is when the Trump administration is themselves doing this. Extrajudicial arrests and deportations of legal residents, blackmailing law firms who have taken cases against Trump, threatening to treat any act of vandalism against Tesla, who again is a single private company owned by one of Trump's closest advisors, exactly the same as those extrajudicial arrests... Again, I'm not personally endorsing it, but you can kind of see where someone might look around them and say continuing to "be the good guy" and fight clean when your opponents are fighting dirty and have the upper hand is a sure fire way to do nothing.
 

Ordacleaphobia

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I'm not endorsing it, but... I think you also need to consider that there's at least a contingent on the left that's come to the conclusion that being "the good guys" and losing an election to someone who is willing to not be the good guys and will go farther than the good guys are willing to, accomplishes fuck all in the grander scheme of things. And, to them, appealing to their need to "be the good guys" here is going to sound hopelessly naive.
That's fine; just own it. If you're cool with terrorism just say so.
 

Drew

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I think that may have been true for the first term, but we're beyond that now. They're in no turning back territory, they hold power or go to jail - or at least go down in a storm of legal problems. We've already seen this happen with the term 1 scapegoats, and in comparison to what the members of this administration are doing that was all child's play.

Realistically, if they keep calling out this admin I think we're headed for Fox being added to Trump's list of no good very bad journalists, and the establishment of a state propaganda administration in its place
Disagree. The right wing media matters, because the rest of the GOP also answers to them. If Fox has clearly had it with Trump and turns on him, then suddenly the GOP congressional delegation will realize they can turn on him too. At that point, the threat of impeachment, and the total inability to execute a lwegislative agenda, will reign Trump in pretty quickly. Or, remove him from office.
 

Drew

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That's fine; just own it. If you're cool with terrorism just say so.
Hey, see my other post. I'm not endorsing the view, myself, and I'm certainly not out there torching Teslas... But I also can't say someone's wrong to want to bring a gun to a gun fight, and by you definition the Trump administration, and his supporters, are also engaging in terrorism. Which you seem AWFULLY quiet about here.
 
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