Any love for Floyd Rose Bridges?
- Thread starter vejichan
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jco5055
SS.org Regular
I actually emailed Schaller to get 100% clarity about that haha, and if anything they just confirmed Vigier shutting down as their response was something like "we don't even manufacture this anymore"...I also talked to Geoffrey McCabe aka Mr Sophia tremolo himself, since apparently the ZR ball bearings are part of a patent of his, and he said that he/his company is "so satisfied by the current Sophia models performance with going as low as two spring setup" etc that they see no need to implement bearings for extra smoothness.
I've briefly played a few Sophia tremolos and from what I recall I wouldn't say they are on that Kahler or other non-knife edge levels of smoothness....
Crash Dandicoot
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Geoffrey is an interesting dude. I've spoken to him a few times when we encountered a very unique issue with my 2:92. Knows his stuff, for sure.
I would agree that it isn't ball bearing smooth, though they certainly have a nice feel to them.
I would agree that it isn't ball bearing smooth, though they certainly have a nice feel to them.
jco5055
SS.org Regular
Yeah, for better or for worse it seems impossible to get a short, yes/no answer from him lol, he'll dive into the techy stuff and sometimes my eyes start to glaze over a bit
I use two of the "Black" (regular tension) Floyd springs with the claw screwed in fairly far. It's a compromise on a 7 because it will NEVER feel like a six.
In order to do the ZR ball bearings right it would probably be prohibitively expensive.
Isaiah04
SS.org Regular
I used to own a beautiful Ibanez Premium with an Original Edge tremolo, one of the best playing and sounding guitars I've owned, but returned it due to reasons I forgot. I now own an LTD H3-1000FR and while it's not the same tremolo, I've really come to love the floyd on it, even tho I installed a Tremol-no on it
jco5055
SS.org Regular
I think in terms of "what actually exists" currently, maybe the best would be Hantug w/the stabilizer pro...though I like the infinite tuners on the sophia bridge also.
bigcupholder
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I've set up my JS1000 (original edge) to be dive only by installing a trem stopper.
While Floyd defenders will say that a properly setup dual locking system is more stable for tuning than any hardtail, it definitely isn't the case. With light strings I found that since the string tension (and hence the spring tension) was light, it was easily knocked out of balance by the weight of the bridge when tilting the guitar slightly forward or back. So if I moved around at all, my bridge would move. Hardtails don't do that.
I also hated not being able to do bends normally, so I set the spring tension a little higher than needed to keep it against the trem stopper when bending.
While Floyd defenders will say that a properly setup dual locking system is more stable for tuning than any hardtail, it definitely isn't the case. With light strings I found that since the string tension (and hence the spring tension) was light, it was easily knocked out of balance by the weight of the bridge when tilting the guitar slightly forward or back. So if I moved around at all, my bridge would move. Hardtails don't do that.
I also hated not being able to do bends normally, so I set the spring tension a little higher than needed to keep it against the trem stopper when bending.
Crash Dandicoot
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@bigcupholder The physics at play with a double-locking tremolo can't be overcome and are well documented - it's less of a 'Floyd defender' stance and more of a 'physics acknowledge-r' one.
There is some inherent limitations regarding spring/string tension pairings (going for an extremely light setup and expecting the ability to do double-stops being a principle example) though your anecdote sounds like either an improperly set up unit or issues with zero-point return-abilty, such as worn knife edges/studs. Tough to say without seeing it, though to be honest it sounds like a full-floating trem simply isn't your preference.
There is some inherent limitations regarding spring/string tension pairings (going for an extremely light setup and expecting the ability to do double-stops being a principle example) though your anecdote sounds like either an improperly set up unit or issues with zero-point return-abilty, such as worn knife edges/studs. Tough to say without seeing it, though to be honest it sounds like a full-floating trem simply isn't your preference.
I recently picked up an old RG1527 with the Edge Pro bridge. Damn if it isn't comfortable to put your hand on, probably the best of any FR I've tried personally (which isn't terribly many, but still).
I'm not settled on what tuning I'm gonna use it for just yet, so I blocked it and took the nut locks off, which tbh is the first time I've ever done that to a guitar and left it that way indefinitely, and I gotta say, feeling-wise, it kicks the ass of any hardtail bridge I've played. And I can fuck with tunings to my hearts content.
I mean it's such an obvious thing. But even when I had an RG2228A with the FX Edge 3, I never tried leaving the nut locks off. I'm not really sure why.
Really, it's not such a hassle to unlock a nut with a hex wrench. I keep it handy in my guitar area... But it's just so freeing to be able to go to town on the tuners on a whim without having to grab the hex, and still have the fine tuners to slowly and steadily that tuning needle perfectly into pitch.
I'm not settled on what tuning I'm gonna use it for just yet, so I blocked it and took the nut locks off, which tbh is the first time I've ever done that to a guitar and left it that way indefinitely, and I gotta say, feeling-wise, it kicks the ass of any hardtail bridge I've played. And I can fuck with tunings to my hearts content.
I mean it's such an obvious thing. But even when I had an RG2228A with the FX Edge 3, I never tried leaving the nut locks off. I'm not really sure why.
Really, it's not such a hassle to unlock a nut with a hex wrench. I keep it handy in my guitar area... But it's just so freeing to be able to go to town on the tuners on a whim without having to grab the hex, and still have the fine tuners to slowly and steadily that tuning needle perfectly into pitch.
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trem licking
SS.org Regular
Yeah even without locking pads tightened, there is no friction at the nut at all so it still stays in tune better than a conventional nut. Could just use locking tuners with the pads off probably just as successfully
TornAnus
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I have a couple of questions to any of you guys with experience setting up floyd rose guitars. I have a guitar with a 12" fingerboard radius, 25.5" scale and it is using the floyd rose 1984 which is original with fat brass block and brass fine tuners.
1. Do I need to remove the shims that are under some of the string blocks on the floyd to match the fingerboard radius?
2. Will a string tree help with tuning stability? I have one but it is not yet installed on the head stock. I dont think there is enough angle on the head stock without it.
1. Do I need to remove the shims that are under some of the string blocks on the floyd to match the fingerboard radius?
2. Will a string tree help with tuning stability? I have one but it is not yet installed on the head stock. I dont think there is enough angle on the head stock without it.
1. Generally yes, but you will want to check the radius of the saddles with a gauge block to make sure.
2. Do you have a locking nut? If so, it should not matter for tuning stability. The string tree might make it more or less of a pain to change strings. If you do not have a locking nut, I would recommend getting one. If you have decided against, then really anything that adds friction against the tensioned (and not isolated) part of the string is going to add more instability. If the string tree adds friction, it's generally not a good idea. If the strings are popping out of the nut due to poor angles, it might be just necessary to play the guitar. But without seeing it, it's hard to say whether you need a string tree or not.
Hope that helps. From your screen name, it sounds like you've got bigger problems than tuning stability, though.
2. Do you have a locking nut? If so, it should not matter for tuning stability. The string tree might make it more or less of a pain to change strings. If you do not have a locking nut, I would recommend getting one. If you have decided against, then really anything that adds friction against the tensioned (and not isolated) part of the string is going to add more instability. If the string tree adds friction, it's generally not a good idea. If the strings are popping out of the nut due to poor angles, it might be just necessary to play the guitar. But without seeing it, it's hard to say whether you need a string tree or not.
Hope that helps. From your screen name, it sounds like you've got bigger problems than tuning stability, though.
TonyFlyingSquirrel
Cherokee Warrior
I don’t even install the springs until the entire instrument has had all of the other treatments first. I block the sustain block under string tension in the final position and do all the set-up as though it were a hard tail, ie; truss rod, string height, intonation, and final stretching.
Once all of that is done, I install the springs with the claw positioned nearly at slack, then I tighten the claw evenly across until the block just falls out, then a final adjustment to the claw to ensure that the entire instrument is in tune from the inside strings outward, D, G, A, B, low E, High E. And I rarely have to make any adjustments after that.
If using a Floyd Key for intonation, I start with the saddle furthest from the neck, that way, I am only ever loosening “ The Key” as it doesn’t like being tightened. Makes my Floyd setups take so much less time with far better accuracy.
Once all of that is done, I install the springs with the claw positioned nearly at slack, then I tighten the claw evenly across until the block just falls out, then a final adjustment to the claw to ensure that the entire instrument is in tune from the inside strings outward, D, G, A, B, low E, High E. And I rarely have to make any adjustments after that.
If using a Floyd Key for intonation, I start with the saddle furthest from the neck, that way, I am only ever loosening “ The Key” as it doesn’t like being tightened. Makes my Floyd setups take so much less time with far better accuracy.
Maybe "most expensive". I have yet to see any evidence that titanium makes any difference in real-world longevity over a hardened steel OFR.
jco5055
SS.org Regular
not sure if it's better per se, but I've talked to a few boutique builders who have used every variety of tremolo under the sun, and just from a quality of components standpoint, they've told me it's Hantug without question
Eh, the machining is top notch, they feel really high end and special, but that's about it.
I can see why boutique builders who are selling an "experience" in a sort of "nothing but the best" or "spared no expense" sort of thing would gravitate towards them.
But it's not like they're going to perform, or even last, any longer than a $180 FRT1000 or 1996T.
If anything, titanium is usually a little softer than steel, which is why you don't really see high wear parts made of the stuff unless temperature, weight, or corrosion resistance is more important than strength.
Technically correct, that pure titanium is about the same hardness as 304 stainless (which is a fairly soft stainless). But nobody makes anything out of pure titanium, and the alloys of titanium can range in softness from the same as steel to incredibly hard.
The Hantug titanium trems are made of Ti-6Al-4V alloy, which is incredibly hard material. There are lots of ways to measure hardness, but, for example, 304 stainless has a Vickers hardness of 129, whereas Ti-6Al-4V is 349.
Whether it's worth the extra $1000 or so to have a titanium alloy knife edge grinding against a titanium alloy post versus a steel knife edge against a steel post, that's an argument with which I wouldn't want to get involved. But from the standpoint of which material is harder, it's no contest.
The Hantug titanium trems are made of Ti-6Al-4V alloy, which is incredibly hard material. There are lots of ways to measure hardness, but, for example, 304 stainless has a Vickers hardness of 129, whereas Ti-6Al-4V is 349.
Whether it's worth the extra $1000 or so to have a titanium alloy knife edge grinding against a titanium alloy post versus a steel knife edge against a steel post, that's an argument with which I wouldn't want to get involved. But from the standpoint of which material is harder, it's no contest.
