AI-created death metal

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by Zer01, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Stuff like this makes me doubt the "intelligence" of artificial intelligence. This isn't really generating music, it's taking existing music and throwing it in a blender for us to gawk at the results.
     
  2. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    Disagree. If the ideas are not coming from your mind/conciousness, but is instead coming from a computer, then you didn't technically create it. I dont think I would ever give credit to an artist that had gotten help from AI

    How AI works in this case, is it's formulating a calculated representation of a representation, based on what a human would do.

    I would say that the creation is not just the end result, but that the creation IS the process, or at least part of it.
     
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  3. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Depending on what you count as AI, this discounts a lot of art created via Photoshop. I don't think content-aware fill quiiiiite counts as AI if you're being pedantic, but from a practical standpoint, it might as well be.
     
  4. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    I'm not saying digital art isnt art; what I'm saying is a computer randomizing ideas and giving them to you to use as your template, or better yet helping you build a song, based off of the AI ideas, is not as respectable or credible imo.
     
  5. shellbound

    shellbound SS.org Regular

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    But you still have to use your taste and judgement to accept/modify/reject what you are given.

    Also, how is that any different from Brian Eno's Oblique Strategies? Or adhering to specific rules of counterpoint? Or writing something in a particular form (sonata), which provides you a template by definition?

    You can be extremely creative when using something random as a seed for your idea or accepting something that's given to you as your limitation. Just like you can keep churning out whistling ukuleles without any AI assistance ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  6. sezna

    sezna undermotivated

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    Doesn't seem much more illegitimate than learning theory and what notes would "belong" over what harmonies.
     
  7. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    I suppose when you put it that way then yeah, but you dont need theory to make music just like you dont necessarily need to learn any sort of techniques or "theory" about art to be an artist
     
  8. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    Haha good one!

    Regarding your first sentence......ok but anyone can do that. If AI presented different musicial equations to even a non-musician, I'm sure they would be able to decide what they like and dont like; but it certainly wasn't "invented" in their mind.

    This is probably not the best analogy but I would say it's a similar to, if someone wanted to paint their house, but had no idea what color they wanted....its because they probably lack an imagination, because theyre not creative or artistic people. However, if they could physically see their house painted in 5 different colors, then they would then be able to choose which one they like.

    The creative suggestion of what would look good, actually came from someone or something else.
     
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  9. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    A lot of creative processes involve repeating known patterns until you stumble on a combination that you like. That's effectively what improvisation or "writing by feel" boil down to. It's not any less creative to act on a presented prompt than it is to "invent" something. I mean, on that level it's a pedantic decision as to where you draw the line between "creating something" and "using things already created". You didn't invent the snare, so is drumming not creative? You didn't invent bar chords or pinch harmonics or blast beats - so does incorporating those into a song not potentially constitute creativity?
     
  10. MetalHex

    MetalHex SS.org Regular

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    Well you used the word "stumble", and it may be more than that. The odds of stumbling on notes that work together are very high, as there are a seemingly finite amount of combinations. But how many times do you think Mozart stumbled upon said configurations vs. hearing the music in his head? (And dare I say without ever hearing that kind of music, ever before him. I dont think he sat down at the piano or even sat down at the desk with the staff line paper to fogure out his musical ideas. I believe that they were first conceived in his mind.) Its possible and probable that the bote combinations he heard in his head, no one has ever heard before, including himself.

    I suppose you can say technically improvising is working with things that you've stumbled upon....but you still make it your own. But the fact that you are the one that "stumbled" upon the combination, and not the computer, IS what counts.

    No I didnt invent the snare....did the guy who invented the snare invent banging on things?

    I get your point, I am just turned off by the technology being used for this, and I'm justifying that by saying what I'm saying. But think I have some good points too.

    At the end of the day, if I were writing music I would feel much more accomplished, and be much more proud of the music I wrote (whether or not I wrote it subliminally having head similar chord progressions before and whatnot), rather than being aided in anyway by a computer.
     
  11. chopeth

    chopeth SS.org Regular

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    d4nunt5-cfe14367-af64-437a-a81b-ee3f64b4e3c9.png
     
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  12. ChugThisBoy

    ChugThisBoy SS.org Regular

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    Art can be created by humans and AI. But art made by humans is real art for me as it comes with the emotions, sacrifices and struggles. If that makes sense
     
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  13. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Given that none of us are inside of Mozarts head, there's no way to demonstrate that his creative process can't be boiled down to some form of pattern matching. And besides that, IMO there's no reason to hold up that one guys creative process as the benchmark for creativity - I don't care who he is. For fun though, the wikipedia article on his process (because there is one, of course), claims that much of his method was just improvisation.
     
  14. ChugThisBoy

    ChugThisBoy SS.org Regular

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    If so, can he be described as a genius? Or "just" very good at improvisation?
     
  15. Jonathan20022

    Jonathan20022 Engineer

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    I don't think you have a shred of an idea about what AI is even about from this statement. You didn't write or think of great music week one either.

    If you want any indication of how authentic this can become, take a look at other feats AI has achieved.
     
  16. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    I'm well aware of what AI is. And I never said it wasn't capable. Self driving cars I think are evidence enough that there's a lot of power in machine intelligence. But I think there's a pretty big stretch between that and some music thrown in a network to just see what happens.

    Nor would I have called myself intelligent at one week old either.
     
  17. ChugThisBoy

    ChugThisBoy SS.org Regular

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    I think that it's interesting, sure. But It'll never repleace or even be close to music created by humans
     
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  18. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    I've (unpopularly) stated before that I don't think machine intelligence and human/biological intelligence are exactly equivalent to each other, and I stand by that opinion, but that's a whole other rabbit hole to go down.
     
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  19. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    Note to self: return to this SSO thread in 20 years.
     
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  20. ChugThisBoy

    ChugThisBoy SS.org Regular

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    I hope it will be still going :D and as I said before, music created by humans has something to it. Like, I don't know, a soul? Emotions poured into it. things that machines can't have. At least for now. I don't know, like TedEH said - it's a rabbit hole.
     

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