4x12 vs 2x12 in home studio!

[ShiroNekoMusic]

Hello! I'm a proud owner of an ENGL Invader 1 amp that I use to play cleans, crunch stuff but most important, METAL! I am a djent type of player (progressive metal, downtuned stuff) and I love tight distortions with boosters in front for some added clarity. This is exactly the tone I get with my 4x12 ENGL PRO STRAIGHT... But it's just too sharp for liquid leads alla John Petrucci. The presence is very weird and I think that it's because my home studio isn't too big and it has homemade acoustic treatment. The music sounds very good but the guitar tone is just way too scratchy, I'd like to know if that's because of the v30s in the cab or because it is straight.

Because of all of this I'd like to order a cab from Hesu, I'd like that tone I just described but I'm afraid that a 4x12 would be way too much for a home studio and I might go deaf. I'd like a 2x12 but I don't know if I'll get good highs because of the height difference with me and the cabinet. What do you suggest? Demon Speakers from Hesu? Celestions? Straight cab? Angled? A regular 2x12 or a vertical one? What brands do you suggest? I'm definitely saving up for any cab as long as it makes me happy, but the less expensive while being high quality, the better.

 

[Gollapalli]

Have you tried rolling back your tone knob?

 

[STRHelvete]

You DO know that a 4x12 isn't somehow louder than a 2x12 right? They're just speaker boxes.

You do also know that the recorded sound you hear is coming from the speaker you mic'd up..so the mic isn't gonna care if the cab is angled or straight, right?

 

[Gollapalli]

Other things to try, where are you picking on your lead lines? Maybe pick more towards the neck? Check your pick angle, and maybe try a different pick thickness/material. When you have nice gear already, chances are how you sound is how you sound, not the gear.

edit: also, which pickup are you playing your lead lines on?

 

[Adieu]

Try the neck pickup, perhaps?

 

[ShiroNekoMusic]

None of these responses are useful at all. I DO KNOW that it depends on the volume of the amp but the cab makes the speakers resonate increasing the volume. Most of the times a 4x12 is going to be louder than a 1x12. Making it angled would make me hear myself much better, all my cabs have been angled except this one, plus I'm pretty tall and the highs don't get to me at all.

I play with both pickups depending on the flavour needed, I'm a professional gigging musician and I know what I'm doing technique wise, I know that depending on where I pick the tone would change, but I disagree, tons of people find v30s to be sharp and annoying and even though they're very good players, they aren't suited for them. About the pickups, a very wide spectrum, from Suhr to Bareknuckle and DiMarzio.

 

[ShiroNekoMusic]

You DO know that a 4x12 isn't somehow louder than a 2x12 right? They're just speaker boxes.

You do also know that the recorded sound you hear is coming from the speaker you mic'd up..so the mic isn't gonna care if the cab is angled or straight, right?

Who said anything about recording? I asked for a cab for my home studio but I record with a Torpedo. I don't mind throwing a mic sometimes but it's a pain in the ass, so I prefer my cab to jam and gig, moving a 4x12 is just a problem. I'm not a rude person but you made me really upset, next time don't respond with such an aggressive and condescending tone and stick to my question, which was about the cabinet I should choose. Thanks.

 

[laxu]

Vertical 2x12s exist and so do larger box diagonal ones. Or you can just turn a 2x12 on its short side to make it vertical. It helps with projection and hearing the highs.

Straight vs angled won't make some massive difference and to me the issue should be solvable by using amp and guitar controls even if you are running V30s.

 

[ShiroNekoMusic]

Vertical 2x12s exist and so do larger box diagonal ones. Or you can just turn a 2x12 on its short side to make it vertical. It helps with projection and hearing the highs.

Straight vs angled won't make some massive difference and to me the issue should be solvable by using amp and guitar controls even if you are running V30s.

That's a very good response! I still want to get rid of the ENGL pro 4x12, it's way too big and sharp, I'm not a huge fan of v30s. I like their tone but that high pitched, sparky trebble is a pain in the ass to me. I wonder if I should change the speakers instead of getting rid of the cab, but a 2x12 is way easier and convenient plus probably less harsh on the ears.

 

[WarMachine]

That's a very good response! I still want to get rid of the ENGL pro 4x12, it's way too big and sharp, I'm not a huge fan of v30s. I like their tone but that high pitched, sparky trebble is a pain in the ass to me. I wonder if I should change the speakers instead of getting rid of the cab, but a 2x12 is way easier and convenient plus probably less harsh on the ears.

If you're looking for something similar to the v30 flavor without the harsh highs the eminence governors may be a good fit for you. I've had some in my cab for about 13 or so years and they sound great.
Or before trying out new speakers maybe try an EQ in the loop of the amp with a hi pass roll off.

 

[ShiroNekoMusic]

If you're looking for something similar to the v30 flavor without the harsh highs the eminence governors may be a good fit for you. I've had some in my cab for about 13 or so years and they sound great.
Or before trying out new speakers maybe try an EQ in the loop of the amp with a hi pass roll off.

Thanks! I'll give that a shot as well. I've heard that the Governors are a tad bit nasal and have many mid frequencies, is that right? I'd like to try them or for example, mixing v30s with some other speakers.

 

[laxu]

...mixing v30s with some other speakers.

V30s pair pretty nicely with G12H-100s. Had a 2x12 with that combo about 10 years back. The G12H-100 should be quite cheap used and it has a flatter midrange but more extended highs and lows so together with the V30 they balanced each other out pretty well.

That said, I don't find V30s to be excessively bright. Yes, they have a high mids spike that can make them a bit fatiguing to play by yourself but that's also what helps them cut in a mix. Have you checked the wiring of your cab in case you have issues like things wired out of phase or something?

While it sounds different than a real cab in a room, do your issues get solved if you run non-V30 cab sims with the Torpedo you use? Does it sound fine to you if you use a simple 4x12 V30 cab sim with a SM57? Does anything change if you take the Torpedo out of your signal chain and run direct into the cab?

 

[bigsimpin]

I agree with Iaxu in that I don't find the high end of the V30s (well, the Mesa ones I have) too bright, or sharp. The upper midrange is pronounced but if anything they seem a little rolled off in the high end.

Assuming the V30s are broken in, I'd be inclined to buy two speakers first to mix with them (X pattern or top-bottom), with voicing that complements the V30s'. That way if you get a new cab later you would have 2 speakers to put in it (or alternatively you could sell the other 2).

From what i've read, people have also had success pairing V30s with Creamback M65 / H75 variants and the G12H30 Anniversary. The M65 is the warmest of the those, but the bottom end not quite as tight so might not be ideal for a djentleman like yourself. I just spent yonks looking at threads on speaker pairings with the V30 and now have a H75 on the way, and all I can say is the speaker rabbit hole runs deep... Good luck!

 

[WarMachine]

Thanks! I'll give that a shot as well. I've heard that the Governors are a tad bit nasal and have many mid frequencies, is that right? I'd like to try them or for example, mixing v30s with some other speakers.

I didn't find them nasal sounding at all. I played them through a 5150 and it sounded fucking massive.

 

[Emperoff]

The problem is not the speakers. Engl cabs are bright by nature since they don't have a proper grill cloth. Their "chain" design is hella cool but it is the closest to not having a grill at all, whereas with a regular grill cloth the high end is filtered out. Getting a new grill might be cheaper.

Equal-loudness contour curves are a big factor at bedroom volumes. Also, you don't get the speaker movement needed for the amp to open up, so you are going to perceive the high end a lot more.

Why not just get an EQ pedal in the loop for leads and shave off that presence? John Petrucci is not known for using tight distortions with tight boosters anyway so maybe setting different lead settings might help.

I still believe the best suggestion so far is playing with the tone knob, though. My best lead tones come out of rolling off the tone like 20% on my SD Pegasus.

 

[bigsimpin]

^^^^^ I can see the sense in this.

Apparently Van Halen used to put cloth or foam and other stuff over his amps to change the tone. Couldn't hurt to try?

 

[LCW]

Really pleased with the SC212. Swapped one of the V-Types for a V30.

 

[USMarine75]

Everything about djent is incompatible with liquid leads.

But on a totally different topic, if you hate your cab then sell it. Keep what you love, sell what you like. Cuz ain’t nobody got time for ‘meh’ gear.

 

[Gollapalli]

I was just thinking of things you might try before you make major changes. Small changes before big ones, you know?

Sounds like you just want a different cab, or different speakers, which is a reasonable thing to want. Good luck to you. With your captor, you can try out different IR’s to find one you like so this should be relatively easy for you.

edit: on another note, Mesa V30s are different to the ones everyone else uses, so going to a Mesa cab might do the trick for you.

edit 2: have you tried turning off your TS for leads? If the volume drop is no good, maybe try switching from the TS to a (yes, really) fuzz or something for a sweeter sound for leads? Maybe put something in the loop to hold volume down for rhythms and bring it up for leads for more power tube compression and speaker breakup?
Sorry, I know you just want a new cab, but these might be worthwhile things to try.

 

[ShiroNekoMusic]

I think I'll go for a Mesa cab, as far as I've heard ENGL and Mesa cabs are completely different beasts, I pretty much like the Mesa tone way more and since their V30s aren't the same as the rest I believe I'll really enjoy it plus I want to get rid of the major problems that come with a humongous 4x12 cab, which is ultra annoying to deal with. I'll sell the ENGL 4x12 Pro and buy a used Mesa 2x12.

Also, you can have djent tones that aren't as abrasive, liquid leads are perfectly compatible with them and that's why ODs, EQ and multichannel amps are meant for so you can shape your tone without vastly changing it. I'll try putting some clothes over it before though.