Why do we still categorize guitars as fender vs. gibson?

Discussion in 'Standard Guitars' started by JediMasterThrash, Jun 7, 2018.

  1. TheFireSky5150

    TheFireSky5150 SS.org Regular

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    There are other guitars than the LP or strat? I thought those were the only two body types. Does this Oni make good twin reverbs!? New here. Thanks!
     
  2. TheFireSky5150

    TheFireSky5150 SS.org Regular

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    There are other guitars than the LP or strat? I thought those were the only two body types. Does this Oni make good twin reverbs!? New here. Thanks!
     
  3. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    No they don't, but got a Gibson, if I'm understanding this thread correctly...I think you need a Hovercraft.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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    I realize that it is a bit self evident to point that out, but I do so as I think your argument in favor of features and flexibility ignores the fact that many players choose their instrument based on timbre rather than versatility. Most players outside the worlds of metal and shred don't need the same upper fret access or extended range that we do, so the timbre and feel of the neck are big reasons they choose a particular guitar. Also, trends come into play - ever noticed that almost everyone outside of metal (and some metal players, too) seem to be playing a tele these days?
     
  5. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    >90% of the timbre comes from the amp and the pickups.
     
  6. BlackSG91

    BlackSG91 Loves Black Guitars

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    Nice guitar and holy moly...that is one big ass cabinet! How many speakers are in that lime green monolith?


    ;>)/
     
  7. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    It's a 6x12, I believe.
     
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  8. wedge_destroyer

    wedge_destroyer SS.org Regular

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    YES, all of that twang is killing me.
     
  9. The906

    The906 Hella rad Contributor

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    What CAN'T you do with this? $3500 used .... and relic'd from the FCS.

    upload_2018-6-13_19-36-48.png
     
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  10. The906

    The906 Hella rad Contributor

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    I'm trying to figure out the ohm rating of that cab.....
     
  11. Spicypickles

    Spicypickles 8 string Warrior

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    Can’t get neck pickup tones.
     
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  12. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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    They may account for 90%, or close to it, for high gain tones, but for clean, low gain, and even mid gain tones it's not that high a percentage. In those situations, I can change the tone considerably by how, where, and with what I pick the string.
     
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  13. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    I *feel* like I remember reading somewhere that it's either a 4x12 and a 2x12 treated as two seperate speakers, or *maybe* it's a split in the middle as two stereo stereo 3x12...somethign weird.
     
  14. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    That only furthers the point that which guitar doesn't really matter, when it comes to timbre.
    From the standpoint of the mechanations of what is happening, a string is excited into vibration. How it is excited matters, the tension and length of the string matter, and the mass of the part of the string that is vibrating matters. Other things about the string, such as it's density and modulus of elasticity have a lot to do with the relative strengths of the harmonic overtones produced. That's why where you pluck, how you pluck, and with what you pluck make a difference in the sound that is produced. Since, for a solidbody electric, we hear this sound through the pickups, some electronics, and then through speakers (usually into a microphone and then into more electronics and more speakers), all of those components colour the tone as well. What matters least of all is the logo printed or inlaid on the headstock.
    Typically, the higher the fidelity of the sound, the brighter the tone. Better pickups, better strings, better electronics, etc., all means a brighter sound. The sound can then be filtered to take some "edge" off of the brightness, but the reverse is not possible. So, even from this perspective, the traditional Les Paul with it's muddier boxier sound with lots of high frequencies bled off, is (in that way in particular) inferior to modern brighter instruments. If you want the muddier tone without having to use an EQ, then the traditional Les Paul still works perfectly fine, so get that out of your head if you think that's what I'm saying. What you can't do, though, is make a LP sound like a Stratocaster or Telecaster.
     
  15. The906

    The906 Hella rad Contributor

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    That makes a lot more sense. Two separate sets of something.
     
  16. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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    No, I would suggest that it means that while the amp/cab/speakers dominate the tone in high gain situations, they play a less significant role in clean and lower gain tones. They certainly still impart their sound, but not as drastically as with high gain tones.


    This is what I was getting at. The difference between a 24.75", 25.5" and 27" scale length will be more pronounced with lower gain settings. The difference between a neck pickup located as it would be on a 22 fret guitar and one located where it would be on a 24 fret guitar, even if it is the exact same pickup on the exact same guitar, will be more pronounced with lower gain settings. The dynamics of the player's picking will be more noticeable, too, because, like the other factors, they are not buried under the gain and compression that a high gain imparts.


    What I was trying to say is that higher fidelity is not necessarily better, it is higher fidelity. Better or worse is subjective based on personal preference and context. Or, to simplify it, my point is that guitar tone, in practice, is art rather than science.


    While I agree, I would also point out the converse, that a Strat won't sound like a Les Paul, either. You can change the pickups and electronics on the Strat, just as you could do a Peter green mod on a Les Paul, but they will still be different from one another.
     
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  17. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    You can take a Strat and you can pass it through the right EQ and it will sound like a traditional Les Paul, but you cannot do the converse, in practice. The brighter tones contain more overtones, and a signal with a flatter global frequency spectrum. With a good EQ, you can carve away at that to make your tone. The Les Paul has more high-frequency roll-off, therefore some of the EQ is already carved away. The only way to make a brighter tone is to greatly cut the lows and the mids, which gives a much lower signal, which causes audio problems associated with low signal levels. From an audio science perspective, the Les Paul guitar is more of a pain.

    It's like you want to make a sculpture using the subtractive method, i.e. carving a piece of wood into a 3D model of something, let's say you want to make the Eiffel Tower in one case and a bust of Mozart in another case.

    The modern guitar is like starting with a large rectangular block of wood. You know it's going to take a lot of carving away to make your model, but you have a lot of material to work, so you can impart as much detail as you would like.

    The traditional Les Paul is like starting with a smaller narrow pyramid shaped block. For the Eiffel Tower example, you're golden, because you have to cut away less material, but for the bust, you are going to now be limited to a smaller piece than with the rectangular prism, since the top of the pyramid is too narrow.

    Similarly, the Les Paul, with its fatter bottom (actually low-mid) end fits well for classic rock tones, but is more limited than modern guitars with a flatter frequency response.
     
  18. xzacx

    xzacx SS.org Regular

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    Les Pauls have been successfully used for pretty much every genre in existence. Are you just trolling? They pull off death and black metal just as well as blues. There’s nothing wrong with not liking an LP but these arguments are just stupid.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
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  19. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    I guess what they pull off would be a bit of a tangential point to what bostjan's saying. You can make due with a lot of things that are varying degrees of suboptimal.

    But I think a lot of the examples of how things are "objectively better" are bordering pseudoscience. A bright guitar doesn't have universally more overtones -- it has comparatively greater upper harmonic content, but could at the same time have less low-mid harmonic content, and thus theoretically we can't just claim to be able to make one thing sound like the other without having a lot of data in front of us showing what typical spectrum of each looks like.

    That's in theory. In practice you're still likely going to need very specific tapers in your roll-off depending on the amplitudes of the overtones present in your tele and your LP, even if the bright guitar simply had "more".

    So "objectively better" still sounds a lot more like objectively different to me.
     
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  20. soliloquy

    soliloquy SS.org Regular

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    i think the reason behind why its fender and gibson is because those two have the longest and most dominant history in rock/blues/metal/country/folk/jazz/etc.
     

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