What's the story with Troy Grady?

Discussion in 'Music Theory, Lessons & Techniques' started by Stilicho, Mar 6, 2018.

  1. USMarine75

    USMarine75 Doc McStuffins (*Block version, not sig) Contributor

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    Oh yeah that was more of a general comment not targeted at you. I guess I still have residual anger from a thread at TGP where a bunch of self-flagellating d-nozzles were hating on Troy lol. [tl;dr "too many notes" was every other post.]
     
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  2. Stilicho

    Stilicho SS.org Regular

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    Oh I know you weren't dude, but if you want to get real angry you can give this a watch:

    This is actually what made me start this thread.
     
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  3. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Actually, Troy himself says these days he's mostly defaulting to a crosspicking technique.

    But, again, I think while the initial lesson I took away was "DWPS is the way to alternate pick fast!" as the material goes on and as Troy's analysis continues, really it becomes increasingly clear that the initial focus on DWPS is largely a product of Troy's huge amount of respect for Yngwie Malmsteen annd the amount of time he dedicated to breaking down his technique, and then that he followed him with Eric Johnson, another guy who was mechanically similar but in a very different area. in the Masters of Mechanics stuff and Pickslanting Primer, they dedicate a lot of time to analyzing guys with an upwards pickslant (John McLaughlin, a couple acoustic players), two-way pickslanters (Batio being the one they really hone in on), and lately crosspickers - the Molly Tuttle footage is pretty damned humbling, and Troy is currently working on material based on Andy Wood and Steve Morse's crosspicking technique.

    So, yeah, if you want to learn how to downwards pickslant, and if you understand how it works mechanically enough to work out what you can and can't do witj it and build your own licks around that, then there's probably not much added value in subscribing unless you want to go deep down the Yngwie or Eric Johnson rabbithole... But, I think the bigger message of his research (because, really, that's what it is) is that mechanically changing from one string to the next poses serious challenges to the picking hand, and there are a LOT of mechanical solutions different players have hit upon over the years to address that, each with their unique pros and cons.

    I'd say, bare minimum, sign up for a free membership to access the free content and forum on his site, if you're curious.
     
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  4. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    This comment is spot on, by the way. :lol:

     
  5. Stilicho

    Stilicho SS.org Regular

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    Yeah I'm after spending all day looking at Troy's stuff and I can see the tremendous value of what he's doing. It's remarkable that I didn't find him sooner.

    I think your point about DWPS being one of many techniques is also an important one. I was immediately struggling to understand why anyone would be moving from the b -> e string from an upstroke, but that's my economy picking prejudice coming through - I frequently rewrite solos for example so I can fit them into nice up-and-down patterns. I'm going to have a hard time getting used to it, but at least it will be another tool to use.
     
  6. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Well, maybe.

    The other alternative is, something you're already doing now is an equally efficient string-switching mechanic, and there will be ways you can either improve that, or adjust your phrasing to take advantage of that. For example, Yngwie is a downward pickslanter so he'll be working from a different perspective than you, but he tends to handle 3-note-per-string patterns or any pattern with an odd number of notes that starts with a downstroke with economy picking when he's going from a lower string to a higher one, and an upstroke when he has an even number of strings. In both cases, either using an upstroke to "escape" from the strings and then move the pick, or a downstroke to sweep to the next string, are valid ways of switching from a lower to a higher string, so which you're doing depends on what pickstroke you happen to land on or which the next string is. In Yngwie's system when you get into trouble is a downstroke but then needing to change to one lower string, which simply doesn't work. He either avoids them, or copes by pulling off rather than picking the last note, etc.
     
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  7. Stilicho

    Stilicho SS.org Regular

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    I get you. Like you said in your post above, the bigger point of his research is about finding efficient ways to escape to another string and it's up to you to use these techniques in your own playing.
     
  8. Element0s

    Element0s Low Fantasy/Black Denim

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    Masters in Mechanics subscriber here and I post on their forum as well. I think it's the best thing going right now.
     
  9. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician SS.org Regular

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    I got bored trying to watch that video. If you’re going to look like if the WoW nerd from South Park lost weight while insulting people, at least have a script/some comedic timing. I kept fast forwarding but it was just this mouth breather going “uhhh uhhh uhhh you know”
     
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  10. Stilicho

    Stilicho SS.org Regular

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    Levi's videos on transcribing and some other topics are interesting, but he's very unlikable generally.

    I remember watching that video and I thought Troy was a charlatan since he wasn't explaining why Ursin was wrong and just kept going like "oh, well, that's an ad hominem" and other such stuff, felt like they had some sort of arrangement and so I started this thread :lol:

    I've spent a lot of time looking at Troy Grady's site since then however and I've been learning a huge amount about picking technique. Definitely recommend checking out his YouTube channel.
     
  11. CerealKiller

    CerealKiller SS.org Regular

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    I think that while Troy's concepts are interesting and very effective if you are struggling with picking, his videos just have way too much filler material for me.
     
  12. Stilicho

    Stilicho SS.org Regular

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    Especially the Cracking the Code series, but if you want a narrative on the "arms race" that EVH started it's actually pretty entertaining. Here's one of his most concise videos on 2WPS:

    Pretty much explains everything you need to know.

    I'm finding his five hour deep-dive into Yngwie's style very helpful for giving me new ideas though, definitely not as much filler as CtC.
     
  13. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    IMO, that's the big difference between the "Season" material and MAsters in Mechanics - the Seasons are entertainment, that also conveys a LOT of info, and it's a pretty enjoyable thing to crack a beer and sit back and watch - I would buy it on DVD if I could and force my non-guitarist friends to watch it, because I think they might finally start to understand what it was like to grow up as a guitarist.

    Masters, meanwhile, is pretty much a pure data dump, presenting concepts and showing how they then become part of a signature lick. The Yngwie one is remarkable. If you want to pick up some concepts and then try to apply them to your own playing, the Seasons are probably enough, but if youy want to get way under the hood with an artist, MAsters is where it's at.
     
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  14. Stilicho

    Stilicho SS.org Regular

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    Yeah the "Seminars" are incredibly dense with material. I've been finding the MiM "Interviews" to be great as well, the Michael Angelo Batio one in particular is full of interesting ideas and details.
     
  15. Deadpool_25

    Deadpool_25 SS.org Regular

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    I love this thread. So many things I agree with even though I am only marginally familiar with Troy's work. I think I also discovered his YT channel because of the Vai/Crossroads video. Eventually I discovered the CtC series and did exactly what @Drew mentioned; I sat back with a beer or three and binge watched it Netflix-style. I found it quite interesting and entertaining, and incredibly well produced.

    I looked into his site a little, but didn't sign up for the forum. I still might, but I feel like I have a decent understanding of what the overall gist is already. In the smallest nutshell possible: it seems to me it's about different techniques that exist for escaping the strings (or not) when needed. When you boil it down it all seems very simple...at least in theory. Application is another story. Also, I liked his stuff on breaking down the physical elements of picking...the motion of the entire picking arm.

    All in all, it seems like pretty cool stuff.

    @USMarine75, I wouldn't have guessed your snarky ass would be into Troy's stuff. Seems to be a bit high-brow for a Marine. :D
     
  16. primitiverebelworld

    primitiverebelworld SS.org Regular

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    I watched some BenEller vids and he is so hyped about pickslanting I took notes and tryed it out myself - it works! I wonder aswell why anybody has not even mentioned the whole nine years of my playing and lurking in forums. Finally things make sense why and how picking happens and why some licks have been easy to play and others ultradifficult. Though not all is convertible to even strokes per string. Economy picking will retain its place here and there.
     
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  17. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Well, because Troy was the first guy I've ever really heard talking about it, and because a lot of the guys who do this, aren't consciously aware they're doing it.
     
  18. USMarine75

    USMarine75 Doc McStuffins (*Block version, not sig) Contributor

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    I dabble lol.

    What's funny is watching these vids and realizing what technique(s) it is that I've been using all these years and didn't realize.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
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  19. Randy

    Randy ROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOU Super Moderator

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    Reminder why I love Levi Clay.
     
  20. jagraal

    jagraal SS.org Regular

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    For whatever its worth, I'm 100% behind whatever Troy does. I haven't seen a lot of the cracking the code stuff, but I did a shoot for it a few years back and I found Troy to be an extremely passionate and knowledgable guy. I've been playing and teaching for a crap ton of years and I can't really say I've played with or worked with anyone that has researched the technique of guitar playing more than Troy. Not only that, but he can explain it all very well, AND the guy can play. You don't find that combo very often. I'd recommend checking out anything he does.
     
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