US Political Discussion: Trump Administration Edition (Rules in OP)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. IChuckFinleyI

    IChuckFinleyI Banned

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    It cracks me up how many people think Trump is an idiot. The success he's had with everything was just all by dumb luck.

    Take a serious look at the candidates backgrounds and accomplishments. What's Hillary actually done? She had the gall to call one of the mothers of the fallen men in Benghazi a liar. What has she accomplished? What has she done on her own that makes her qualified to run a country?

    Obama has torn this country apart with making everything about race, tripling the national debt and screwed so many people with ACA/Obamacare. Trust me, I work in healthcare and handle billing, coding and general insurance benefits. Every single week someone comes in with insurance from the marketplace and guess what? Do they get to keep their doctor? Nope. Where they able to keep their health plan? Nope. Does their Obamacare cost less? God no it doesn't. For most people it's cheaper to take the uninsured fine and pay for everything out of pocket.

    How people still think Democrats/Liberals are out to help the little guys/under privileged is amazing. Of course a lot of it boils down to the entertainment industry making Dems look cool and impressionable idiots buy into it hook, line and sinker.

    There needs to be a test given to people before they're allowed to vote.
     
  2. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually say that.

    He's not an idiot at all, he's a piece of absolute scum, but not an idiot. The folks who vote for him on the other hand........

    As for Obamacare, even as someone who typically leans to the left (I do really dislike both parties, truthfully), I can see that it really isn't a "win" just yet. It did a lot of positive, and negative, but it really didn't have a shot given the state of the House and Senate.

    I think it introduced a lot of good ideas, like guaranteed coverage, expanded Medicaid, extended dependent child coverage, and forcing smaller employers to invest in benefits.

    I say that as someone who is actually getting "screwed" by Obamacare. I had "Cadillac Coverage" but thanks to reforms my company is moving to a more "responsible" :)rolleyes:) system which means reduction in benefits for me, albeit with a lower cost, but I rather pay more for better coverage. But, I rather take a small hit (I can afford it. :cool:) for the greater good.

    I think that's what really separates the left and the right in this country. The right is all about "what am I directly getting/giving" where as the left is more about "what do I have to give/get to make things better".
     
  3. CapnForsaggio

    CapnForsaggio Cap'n (general)

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    I believe that BOTH sides are corrupt and wasteful. Therefore I am a "small government libertarian." Any small government is better than large in my opinion. Because of this, I vote more often for "conservative" candidates than not. For me, it is about how not to get TAKEN by taxes, waste, and pandering to special interests.....

    I just think there are actual, REAL, intellectual reasons to be a "conservative." My reason is that all pols are POSs......
     
  4. Dog Boy

    Dog Boy SS.org Regular

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    Is Obama running again? And why isn't Ted dead or in jail? And why do I still own my gun? :nuts:

    The right talks and talks and talks, They are on their last legs, soon to be extinct...enjoy your defeat this fall.
     
  5. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    To be conservative, yes. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with a conservative political view.

    The problem is that "conservatives" in the GOP have lost sight of what being conservative actually is.
     
  6. TheStig1214

    TheStig1214 Mr. Tophat Jones

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  7. CapnForsaggio

    CapnForsaggio Cap'n (general)

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    And the "liberals" in the DNC have forgotten what being a NATION is:

    1) Having borders
    2) Having a monetary policy (other than print/spend)
    3) Having equal opportunity (and NOT equal outcome)
    4) etc. etc.
     
  8. TheStig1214

    TheStig1214 Mr. Tophat Jones

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    1) Last time I looked at a map, we have some pretty well defined borders. They can get a bit weird sometimes, but they are there.

    2) Do you have any idea how national debt works? It's not Obama's policy, it's Congress', and we all know how Congress is right now.

    3) This I can't really debate. But there is no doubt racism and lack of equal opportunity still exists, just look at how successful the Southern Strategy still in with the GOP.

    4) ????

    You can't just put "ect. ect." to make it look like you have more points than you do.
     
  9. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    1. The undocumented immigrant population has actually been going *down* over the past several years: fewer people are trying to get in, and the Obama administration has been aggressively deporting people. Check the numbers.

    2. As opposed to the Republican approach of cutting taxes on the richest Americans and never specifying where the lost revenue is supposed to come from? How did the budget work out during the eight years of our last Republican president?

    3. If we actually had equal opportunity, you might have an argument. Until then...

    4. Translation: I can't think of anything else, but surely those pesky Democrats are doing something else wrong!
     
  10. IChuckFinleyI

    IChuckFinleyI Banned

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    Oh I'm sorry, I figured since people have thrown Bush's name around in this topic it would be okay to talk about Obama. I forgot the double standard silly Liberals have lol
     
  11. will_shred

    will_shred Wannabe audio engineer

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    This will be fun.

    Hillary Clinton served in the senate from 2001 up until 2009 when she was appointed as secretary of state. In the senate she served on 5 committees with 9 subcommittee assignments. In the senate she: Served on the Committee on the Budget from 2001 to 2003, served in the senate armed services committee from 2003-2009. On the armed services committee she served in the subcommittee on emerging threats and capabilities, and on the subcommittee on readiness and management support. From 2001-2009 she also served on the committee of environment and public works. While serving on that committee her subcomittee assignments were: Clean Air and Nuclear Safety, subcommittee on Fisheries, Wildlife and Water, subcommittee on Transportation and Infrastructure, and was the chair of the subcommittee on Superfund and Environmental health. From 2001-2009 she served on the committee of Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions where her subcommittee assignments were: Subcommittee on children and familites, and the subcommittee on employment and workplace safety. She was also a commissioner of the Commission for security and cooperation in Europe. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_career_of_Hillary_Rodham_Clinton) The page on her accomplishments as secretary of state is way to long for me to type out here, so i'll let you read it if you're so inclined (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_Clinton's_tenure_as_Secretary_of_State)

    Next point
    1. systematic racism isn't a debatable issue. Just because you didn't know it existed, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Lucky for me, John Green took the liberty of breaking down the numbers in a nice bite sized video with sources for all his data. If you choose not to watch the video, you lose the right to argue that systematic racism doesn't exist because of your own ignorance on the subject
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQdMgtncpoE

    2. The national debt is an age old problem that has a lot to do with a lot of things. However the rate of increase of the national debt hasn't really changed much between the Bush and Obama presidencies. The national debt doubled under Bush, and it also doubled under Obama (source: US Treasury departmenthttps://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm). However the federal budget deficit gradually grew under Bush (two wars and tax cuts for the rich are expensive, who woulda thought?) until it peaked during his last year in office/Obama's first year because of the recession/global financial crisis. The TARP program and economic stimulus were expensive, but they kind of saved the entire global and domestic economy from total collapse. Since then, the budget deficit has been gradually shrinking.
    [​IMG]
    (source, Mediamatters, who sourced their info from the department of the treasury New Data Debunks Years Of Fox News Paranoia About The Federal Budget Deficit | Research | Media Matters for America)

    One last point, I would agree that the ACA is a ....ty law, but that hardly has anything to do with Obama since he didn't write the law, and he was initially for a single payer system which would have been far more cost effective. In my opinion, that blame rests on the members of congress who caved to the demands of various groups who make enormous amouts of money off of the sick and dying. Which is why I don't think that healthcare should be run on a for-profit basis at all, as it basically creates an incentive to hold sick people hostage until you can milk them for all the money they're worth. :wavey:
     
  12. IChuckFinleyI

    IChuckFinleyI Banned

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    I'll ask again: What has she accomplished? All you did was list committees she's been in. Not a single thing that she accomplished with them.

    Further more, if you don't think the left and the Liberal media have fanned the flames of racism, you're out of your mind. Lets just look at the George Zimmerman case. They labeled him a "white hispanic". He couldn't just be a latino, they had to make him white somehow. Everybody knows, making someone white, makes them that much worse.

    Let's not forget if you're a white person who isn't a Liberal, you're instantly branded a racist. If you can't acknowledge that, then you've lost your argument on that.

    It's also to the point where if you think #bluelivesmatter, you're a racist because you support the police. Because all cops are white and shoot every black person they see. :noplease:

    We live in an Entitlement Nation. Where people are handed everything. Why get a job when you can collect unemployment? The more kids you have, the more welfare and food stamps you can get. Which also goes along with unemployment. Who ends up paying paying for their welfare checks, food stamps, Medicaid etc? Everyone who wakes up and get their ass to work everyday. We're the ones who pay for it all. I busted my ass to get where I am today. If someone doesn't want to work and get everything handed to them, why should I have to pay for it? If you get up and actually apply yourself, you can accomplish almost anything. It's not that difficult. Which is one of the things Trump represents.

    Yet people are okay with voting for another Liberal who's not going to do anything different. It'll be more of the same. The rift between Americans will just get worse. Police officers will have to tiptoe on eggshells because if they do anything to anyone who isn't white, it'll make the news. Honest taxpayers will have even more of their money go to people who are playing the system. God forbid a single American dies in a foreign country, because Hillary won't do anything about it.

    People claim they want a change, yet they'll be voting for more of the same. :scratch:

    Have good 'un. Peace. :wavey:
     
  13. Andromalia

    Andromalia Pardon my french

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    The weirdest thing about Trump is, why would you want to have for president someone who crashed half his companies and only got through because of inherited money ? When you inherit 300M$ you are de facto part of the establishment.

    I've always wondered how a country could run where 80% of the people accept slavery while dreaming they can become part of the other 20%. It mathematically won't happen.

    Oh yeah, more food stamps. The dream life. Doesn't the fact that food stamps even have to exist ring a bell ?
     
  14. flint757

    flint757 SS.org Regular

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    Food stamps don't even sort of cover how much raising a child costs so that logic doesn't hold any water anyhow. You are still running in the negative with each child you have even if you get more food stamps.
     
  15. will_shred

    will_shred Wannabe audio engineer

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    Yeah... This is why I will never be able to get along with a conservative. All talk no substance. Just skirting around every single point I made while spewing more nonsense and blaming poor people for the woes of the nation. :rolleyes: The talking point about Welfare fraud has been debunked so many times i'm amazed that there are people who still believe it. examples:

    On average, 20 to 25 cents of every $1 spent on four government assistance programs is lost to fraud, Sen. Ron Johnson says | PolitiFact Wisconsin

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/100975718

    Of course, its not like i'm going to get anywhere with this. You're perfectly happy giving the finger to people in poverty, even if they work, because you got your own right?
     
  16. tacotiklah

    tacotiklah I am Denko (´・ω・`)

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    Lots of assertions made in this post with no facts posted or sources. I'm almost finding myself regretting asking for sources on these because I have a gut feeling it will be either based from Fox News/Alex Jones/Rush Limbaugh/etc.

    But let's break all this bull.... down (because it largely is bull....) one item at a time.

    1.) George Zimmerman is a repeat offending criminal whose other legal woes involve violent crimes...
    (I'll be damned, even fox news got this right)
    A list of George Zimmerman's past run-ins with the law | Fox News
    (CNN timeline on this for more credibility because I still hate citing anything from fox news)
    George Zimmerman's history with the law - CNN.com

    I'm sorry, but given how the man seems to be bat.... insane and guns are usually involved whenever he is around, along with his own cousin coming right out and saying that he is a known racist as well as a molestor ( 'Witness 9' Accuses Zimmerman Of Molestation : NPR) it's hard to believe that he is anything other than a disgusting excuse of a human being that gunned down a black kid on racist premises. I don't consider him a "white hispanic". I consider him to be a psycho that the NRA and gun lobby propped up based on racist pretenses. Remember, a 17 year old kid lost his life because he went to the store in a hoodie to get some skittles. Treyvon's crime in all of this? Being black at night.

    2.) To the #bluelivesmatter and #alllivesmatter crowds out there, we're all well aware that those lives matter as well. We're focusing here on the disproportionate amount of black people being assaulted, shot, incarcerated, and murdered by improper police practices and by inhuman people that happen to be wearing a badge. I'm well aware that #notallpolice and whatnot is in play. But if you truly care about the health and future of law enforcement, wouldn't getting rid of these ....ty cops so that good cops aren't tarred with the same brush be of a high priority for you? We need less dirty harry types in the world right now and more cops like this:
    Police Give Presents Instead of Tickets During Holiday Traffic Stops in Michigan : People.com
    We need police that think of themselves as members of the community and not ones that develop a god complex once they get their badge.

    3.) As you can see here, the amount spent on welfare in the budget is the lowest it has been since 2008
    Government Spending Chart: United States 2006-2021 - Federal State Local Data
    You're working SOOOOO hard to cover "dead beats" even though the figures say you're full of crap. Try again.

    4.) Trump represents success? Really??? :rofl:
    First off, his start was being handed what he claims to be just "a small loan" of $1 million. Did Donald Trump inherit $100 million? | PolitiFact Florida
    Yeah, because in America, dads around the world can give their children a million bucks to make something of themselves. But let's see what Trump ACTUALLY did with that money...
    Donald Trump bankruptcy: Everything you want to know - Aug. 31, 2015
    Yep, he is using bankruptcy law and government assistance to keep his failing businesses afloat. Any time the financial wind blows in a course less than optimal, the first thing he does is file chapter 11 bankruptcy. The point of chapter 11 in the bankruptcy code is to allow a business to continue to operate while a full restructuring is done to save the business. This is intended as a last resort option to keep a company from failing. Trump abuses the hell out of this. Now in fairness, sometimes things happen that no one can predict and chapter 11 is needed to get a company back on track. But the need for it usually arises as a mixture of both bad business practices in tandem with unfavorable market scenarios.
    He is taking his rather large inheritance and starting a bunch of crap, failing companies (Trump steaks that can only be bought at the sharper image anyone? :lol: ) in an attempt to make his name a brand that he can market off of. Reminds me an awful lot of what Bernie Madoff did and look at how many people lost everything they had to that man. If Trump dropped out or lost this race, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he were to be forced to appear in court for his business practices at some point. You can only buy so much loyalty until those being bought start asking for more than what you have.

    5.) And just how many people do you think are "playing the system"? What about Fortune 500 companies that are obscenely rich and are on government assistance:
    Forbes Welcome (you'll need to turn adblocker off to view link for whatever reason. Forbes is still a great resource for financial/business/economic related topics)

    What about the fact that 15 of these companies paid NO federal taxes:
    15 Fortune 500 Companies Paid No Federal Income Taxes in 2014 | The Fiscal Times

    Who are the real welfare queens here? Who are the ones that are sucking the life out of your paycheck? It's not the latina mom with 5 kids trying to make ends meet. It's the Boeings and General Electrics of the US that are incredibly wealthy and using your hard earned money to make themselves even more rich. Thanks to citizens united, they can then use your own money against you by lobbying for even more tax loopholes to help them and buy off politicans to convince you to vote against your own interests and allow this circus to continue. Congrats on being your own worst enemy and having the audacity to complain about any of it. You made your bed, now lie in it. Or maybe excise your head from your backside and see the greatest con in American history being played out right in front of you and make your vote count for something other than being wasted on a failed racist loudmouth with no political platform other than blaming people with more melanin in their skin for the countries woes.

    6.) Voting for the same? You know what would be voting for the same? Another lame ass "christian" that enforces the christian version of sharia law on people by telling women what to do with their bodies and who can fuck who because their imaginary friend told them its wrong. Or voting for another bought and paid for politician that promised them for the umpteenth time that trickle down economics 'really does work!(™)' despite many respected economists saying otherwise:
    The "trickle down theory" is dead wrong - Jun. 15, 2015
    Strange how when you spend more from the budget than what you're paying into the system because muh tax cuts that suddenly there's a national debt that we can't seem to keep up with. And before you start lambasting Obama because he had to spend money to actually stop the financial hemorrhaging in 2008 (my guess is that you're looking at raw dollar amounts instead of taking GDP rate into play), we can see that with other factors considered, Reagan was the WORST president in recent memory when it came to government spending:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...record-on-any-president-on-the-national-debt/


    Coming from one white person to another on the issue of race:
    Stop blaming other races for the things the rich and bought for politicians that you cast your ballot for are doing to you. Open your eyes and see how much it is in their best interests to keep you fighting the imaginary 'they terk er jerrrrrrbs!' hispanics and 'omg mooslem tereests' while they continue to just take money right out of your wallet. Basically as a white person, I'm sick of the racist bull.... that white people are currently doing and I'm tired of being ashamed of being white. However, I know that shame is well deserved when the best offering that modern white America has for presidential candidacy is Donald fucking Drumpf.
     
  17. Spinedriver

    Spinedriver SS.org Regular

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    There's nothing wrong with being fiscally Conservative. Sadly, over the past decade or two, the Republican party is becoming more and more socially Conservative but that has nothing to do with governing a country.

    The reason for having a government is to make sure communities have sanitation, decent roads, medical facilities, etc.. All of the things that are either too big or too important for a single company to be in control of. Gay marriage, women's right to an abortion, etc.. should be of ZERO concern to whichever party is in control.

    The problem with Trump is that the whole election is all about HIM. He will literally contradict himself just to focus attention to himself. I realize people are attracted to him because he's not a career politician. What people are failing to realize his that whenever he got into a bind (financially or otherwise) he just pulled the ripcord and bailed out by declaring bankruptcy or calling a bunch of lawyers to settle whatever mess he made. If there's a summit meeting, is he going to send a lawyer because it's "not worth his time to go" ?

    Being President is just a "goal" for himself. He has no idea how to make policy or how to bargain. All he knows is how to bully people into giving him what he wants and I would imagine that it won't be too long now before the RNC gets fed up and just kicks him off the ticket completely. Then we'll see how committed he is if he decides to continue on as an independent.
     
  18. TheStig1214

    TheStig1214 Mr. Tophat Jones

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    Finally someone says it. The government doesn't have any leg to stand on when social issues are concerned. It's strictly public safety and utilities, military, and national spending. That should be it.

    I am curious what sort of implications or upheavals there will be if he wins the GOP nomination fair and square and they just boot him off the ticket and take Cruz.
     
  19. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    I don't generally quote people to pick apart arguments, but in a thread like this, where we are actually trying to get to the truth, you're doing a disservice to everyone by being misinformed or actually lying.

    Obama has not tripled the national debt. He's almost doubled it. That's still a HUGE increase, and an increase I am very unhappy with. But why would you lie about this, just to have your argument shot down? Lying like this makes it difficult for people t like me, who actually want to decrease the national debt, to be taken seriously. Do you really think you need to exaggerate an increase of $10 trillion dollars to make a point? Why would you even do that? Either your pulling numbers out of thin air, or are intentionally lying. Either way, do fiscal conservatives a favor and don't participate in the argument, because you're making those of us who want real governmental spending to decrease look bad.

    And it is also completely untrue that it makes more sense for people to take the ACA fine and pay for healthcare out of pocket. If you're in medical billing you know what healthcare actually costs, and the majority of people bill more than their premiums. Obviously it works for some people, who are not likely to need any substantial medical care, to pay out of pocket, but there are no statistics that back up your statement. And there are those who don't like the law, and choose to save a few hundred or a thousand dollars, and roll the dice that they won't need anything medical for the year. But these do not add up to a majority. Again, PLEASE don't contribute to the discussion if you are not going to actually help the side you say your supporting. If you are on the opposite side, and are saying these things just to diminish the arguments you're making, then bravo, because you got me!
     
  20. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    I think you're being incredibly paranoid. There are tens of millions of white conservative Americans who no one considers racist. Where are you getting your data on this?

    And you are being tremendously swayed by the media yourself. Take a look at the numbers for what food stamps, unemployment, and welfare cost, and compare it to the tax shelters corps use, the tax dodges that wealthy people have, and get back to me how poor people are making it more difficult for you to survive. It's not even close. Does it not interest you that you bust your ass to get ahead, and you are in a higher tax bracket than the top .001%? I don't disagree with you on entitlement, and the odd welfare incentive to have more kids, but don't think that people below the poverty line are eating your lunch. You're missing the big picture.

    I personally want to see a lot of change in our government. But I'm not going to toe the line with the GOP, and I'm not particularly enthused about the Democrats either. Both of the parties are so corrupt that they owe far to much to the status quo to rock the boat.
     

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