Unpopular opinions

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by icos211, Feb 10, 2015.

  1. xzacx

    xzacx SS.org Regular

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    Are you saying that you "being vegan and still eating seafood" is an unpopular opinion? That's not really an opinion, you just aren't vegan, which there's nothing wrong with. But it's a fact you aren't vegan. I don't get your point. There's nothing wrong with a hybrid version of two different diets, or any way of eating at all for that matter. At the end of the day "vegan" is just a label, but it specifically labels a diet you don't seem to subscribe to.
     
  2. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire self-appointed sso pickup tester

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    fish farming and overfishing are serious issues. china alone has helped endanger or kill off multiple species due to constant overfishing and deliberate skirting around fishing laws *like not fishing near protected areas and turning off their transmitters when near said areas* there are heat maps detailing this kind of stuff on noaa and international fishery websites.
    fish farming causes a problem because other animals are caught in the retainment nets, the farmed fish are more susceptible to disease/parasites which are easily spread to wild fish.
    the truly sustainable forms of protein right now are bugs, soy/algae and lab cultured meat afaik
     
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  3. possumkiller

    possumkiller Goose stepping in front of a mirror

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    Plants are living things as well. Why does nobody care about their feelings?
     
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  4. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire self-appointed sso pickup tester

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    shhh don't ruin vegan/vegetarian's moral high ground
     
  5. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    But are plants conscious? Do they really have feelings? I think I read somewhere that they respond to pain in some way. No idea if that's true or not.
     
  6. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    They respond to stimuli, which I think necessarily means that they do have a plant-equivalent to a nervous system. My sister's boyfriend is a botanist and he said he's gotten to play with a plant that responds to touch immediately, like if you touched an animal. I guess it's not really so super surprising to hear, considering we all know about the existence of venus flytraps.
     
  7. possumkiller

    possumkiller Goose stepping in front of a mirror

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    Dude. Just because we can't understand how they feel doesn't mean they don't have feelings man.
     
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  8. ImNotAhab

    ImNotAhab ChronicUnderachiever

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  9. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    I choose to believe that they don't have feelings in the same sense as what we experience as feelings. I can't decide if I'm being sarcastic or not.
     
  10. Randy

    Randy ROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOU Super Moderator

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    I'd imagine the standard most biologists would apply is whether or not an organism possesses the hardware necessary to feel emotions or feel pain; most significantly, a brain and complex nervous system. As vilk said, a plant responds to stimuli but that can be considered an involuntary reaction for survival. The standards we think of when talking about torturing something, for example, would be things like fear and pain; things that a plant's physical makeup (seemingly) make it incapable of feeling.

    If a vessel doesn't possess pain receptors or a brain to process emotions, can it have "feelings"? By most current standards, no.

    And the extent to which that matters to somebody really depends on the person. Some people draw the line at not eating mammals but are okay with eating fish just because of their understanding of how simple a fish's brain is and our perception of them as being unable to feel love, fear, etc. Lots of people are okay with eating mammals, partially out of perception of "necessity" but as far as moral line between eating an animal and eating a human being, there's a perception that animals don't have complex levels of thought, like deciding what college they want their kids to go to or what family members they want to invite to their wedding; and thus, their simpler minds make them less relatable and as a result, less ideologically difficult to justify killing. On and on.
     
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  11. possumkiller

    possumkiller Goose stepping in front of a mirror

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  12. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire self-appointed sso pickup tester

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    if you want to hear an interesting tidbit, doctors didn't believe infants truly processed pain until relatively recently (ie within the last 20 years or so). They used to do circumcisions without local anesthetic due to that particular idea.
     
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  13. Randy

    Randy ROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOU Super Moderator

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    Oh yeah, I think that kinda thing is ever evolving. I'm far from anti-science or a believer in pseudo-science, but there's a threshold between what's 'possible' and what's 'proven' that leaves a TON of things unknown for a long time, maybe forever. Likewise, the criteria that surrounds something being considered 'proven' is equally susceptible to revision that, to some degree, nothing is ever 100% unshakably certain forever.

    So could we find out 10 years from now that trees have complex emotions, thoughts, aspirations, etc? I'd say the answer is always less than 100% 'no'.
     
  14. possumkiller

    possumkiller Goose stepping in front of a mirror

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    You don't have to tell me. Those assholes chopped my dick skin off without asking me at all. I want justice!

    Especially since I moved to Europe. If they ever decide to have another Holocaust over here I'm gonna be sticking out like an uncircumcised dick!
     
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  15. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire self-appointed sso pickup tester

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    it was pretty easy for them to figure out that infants felt and processed pain, they basically hooked them up to ekgs and did FMRIs to show that they physically respond in the same way adults do to pain (ie elevated heart rate, increased blood pressure, increased blood flow to brain, increased dopamine, etc).
    I don't know if plants will ever be classified as sentient or such, but I'm sure I won't care. I don't care about most animals I eat beyond them not letting them suffer unnecessarily (which influences the taste of the meat). Happy animals given quick clean deaths taste better.
    Is your latent childhood trauma manifesting itself regularly? TIME TO SUE
     
  16. possumkiller

    possumkiller Goose stepping in front of a mirror

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    Nah my parents don't have anything worth suing for.
     
  17. Randy

    Randy ROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOU Super Moderator

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    Well, define "easy". It wasn't easy up until ~20 years ago, and it only became easy once they knew what they were looking for. That's the rub, you can define something based on the currently existing criteria but who's to say that criteria is right? And in the example you provided, it can and does change. That was my only point.

    As far as whether you feel 'bad' eating a plant or an animal or whatever, it's wherever you draw the line. I eat animals and I feel bad about it but I'm also not going to change, and I hold the outside possibility that plants can suffer, and that ALSO makes me feel bad but it being true or not ALSO won't change my eating habits.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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  18. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    It's a very simplified model of general worldviews, but here's how we humans place value on life:

    Self > family > friends > other humans > whatever seems most human > animals that don't seem as much like humans > plants and other life forms that are even more removed from being like humans.

    Cannibalism, i.e. eating other humans, is illegal or at least very much taboo around the world. Many cultures believe that eating certain animals is reprehensible, and those animals typically bear some resemblance to humans. No culture on Earth disallows eating plants in general, although there are some Eastern religions that do try to minimize the damage done to plants in dictating what parts of the plants are not to be eaten.

    Anyway, eating plants, according to this general oversimplified umbrella worldview, is less impactful than eating animals. Certainly, there is no way to preserve oneself without eating some material derived from another living thing. Even if you just eat vitamin pills, those vitamins were, at some point, extracted from a plant, animal, or microorganism.
     
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  19. BIG ND SWEATY

    BIG ND SWEATY Edgy

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    You aren't a vegan unless you've reached level 5, pocket mulching is optional.
     
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  20. BenjaminW

    BenjaminW SS.org Regular

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    A strat in the middle + neck pickup position gives off the best clean tone.
     
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