Tube Amp vs. Pedals vs. non-Master Volume

Discussion in 'Gear & Equipment' started by JediMasterThrash, Jun 1, 2018.

  1. JediMasterThrash

    JediMasterThrash SS.org Regular

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    I always find it amusing when I watch pedal review vidoes, and people are putting their entire pedalboard into the pre-amp input on their amp instead of using the FX loop. Even when using the clean channel.
     
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  2. Ogami-Z

    Ogami-Z SS.org Regular

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    Totally agree, the preamp / tonestack can really influence the tone of the pedal & a lot of the time in a negative way. This is why there can be some very mixed opinions on just the one distortion pedal, some amp pramps don’t dont take distortion pedals well. Always try the pedal in the loop bfore you make your mind up. It’s a different story with overdrives that are usually designed to compliment the tone & drive of an amp through the front end of most amps.

    My or15 was a bit temperamental with pedals untili changed the v1 preamp tube to a 12at7 but that’s mostly with fuzz, muff & a rat. If i was using a hi gain pedal from amptweaker, rev or diezel I’d definitely be giong through the loop.
     
  3. JediMasterThrash

    JediMasterThrash SS.org Regular

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    So I played around a bit with what I had lying around to get a better feel of this.

    I used my GNX4 before the ENGL e530 to see how the tone could shape. The GNX4 has some tone suck relative to my current g-system/e530, but I ignored those effects. The idea is that if i like something, I'll buy a real pedal to put in one of the g-system insert loops before the preamp loop.

    The e530 has four voices, the clean+lo, clean+hi, lead+lo, lead+hi (technically 6 if you include the "contour")

    First I tried just using the GNX4 parametric EQ to generate the tone shaping of the tube screamer. Tamed some 120hz lows, boosted 700hz mids, and cut off those 7k highs.

    The clean+lo got some good sound out of this tone shaping, a nice mid boost. The lead side basically felt no change at all.

    Then i shut that off and used the pedal simulator in the GNX4. It includes simulations of the TS-9, proco rat, boss ds-1, dod 250, Big Muff Pi, Guyatone OD-2, Sparkledrive, and a few metal dist. pedals (fYI, the digitech grunch is a really versatile full-metal pedal, despite sounding like it's for alternative).

    The clean+hi channel really liked the boss ds-1. It's a distortion pedal so it gave more oomph to drive the clean side.

    The lead+lo channel really liked the ODs, but any distortion-level pedal was too much on the lead side. I felt the guyatone OD-2 was really giving the best sound. The dod250 was 2nd. They really gave that sustaining drive to solos that regular clean+hi and lead+lo channels were missing. without being quite so distorted as the lead+hi.

    The TS-9 and sparkledrive tended to sound pretty similar, and had a bit too much mid honk I felt, though the tone knob can help. But I'd noted before, the engl already has a pretty tight low end and strong mids, so I think it doesn't really benefit from a mid-boosting pedal like some other amps like fenders that have a traditionally scooped mids voicing.

    None of the pedals drove a lower-channel into full rhythm crunch though. They did great things for leads and middle of the scale work, but nothing substituted the lead+hi for palm muted power chords. I've never understood why they call the lower gain channel rhythm and the higher gain channel lead. The rhythm is the one that needs the high gain to get crushing palm mutes. And the lead playing is the one that doesn't need all the gain because it's higher frequency notes to begin with, and is served better by a lower gain cleaner sound. Completely backwards!

    So I guess my question is, given that I felt the guyadrive od-2 sounded best on the lead+lo and the boss DS-1 sounded best on the clean+hi, what real world pedals should I be looking at? Well I guess obviously the od-2 and ds-1, but I was assuming there's probably some better versions of these pedals. I assume the fulltone OCD recommended might be the better OD-2-like pedal?
     
  4. JediMasterThrash

    JediMasterThrash SS.org Regular

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    'grunge' not 'grunch'. The edit button seems to have disappeared.

    On the OD, the seymour duncan 805 I'd also been looking at for just a clean tone shaper is also an overdrive. I wonder how that compares to the OCD?

    My fav Vinnie Moore now uses an analog man king of tone overdrive into an Engl e670. Of course that king of tone OD is a 500$ pedal, versus like 80$ for an OCD or 805! Though he also used an xotic BB as an overdrive which is a relatively cheap pedal.
     
  5. prlgmnr

    prlgmnr ...that kind of idea

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    Too late now, you've invented a subgenre.
     
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  6. mnemonic

    mnemonic Custom User Title

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    Yeah I’m a pretty big deal in the grunch scene.
     
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  7. wakjob

    wakjob SS.org Regular

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    There once was a member in the Marshall forum
    with that name... he was really loved by everyone. :point:

    Seriously, some good achieved drama right there.
     

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