The Big 4 of Death Metal?

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by Dawn of the Shred, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. KailM

    KailM SS.org Regular

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    Ehhh, to me it's always been primarily about the sound, because the lyrical content you described could practically be applied to most music within the general umbrella of "metal." Even Black Sabbath could have been considered 'death metal' if all it takes is a religious/supernatural theme. Most thrash bands of the 80s also covered the same topics.

    FWIW, I don't care much about the lyrics. The overall feeling I get from the music is more important. In fact, with some of these bands, I'd rather not know the lyrics, haha.

    I'm not here to be an elitist though; people can like what they want, and can call their favorite music whatever they want. But if I'm in the mood for death metal, then there is a pretty strict set of criteria I apply -- some bands have it, others don't. Usually the 'modern' bands tend to incorporate too many elements that are not in line with the death metal aesthetic (i.e. -- pristine production, guitar tone that is too polished, and drums that are too clicky). I may listen to some of those bands and enjoy them for their creativity and skill, but I don't view them from the lens of being death metal.
     
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  2. DiezelMonster

    DiezelMonster Complainasaurus Rex

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    I'm sorry I will 100% disagree with Gordian Knot having any Death Metal lineage, It has people that WERE in death metal bands but that is where it ends. I've listened to both the self titled and Emergent more than I can count. Nothing death metal about those records. It's is progressive but has so many genres intertwined, however death metal is NOT one of them.
     
  3. DiezelMonster

    DiezelMonster Complainasaurus Rex

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    I'm sorry I will 100% disagree with Gordian Knot having any Death Metal lineage, It has people that WERE in death metal bands but that is where it ends. I've listened to both the self titled and Emergent more than I can count. Nothing death metal about those records. It's is progressive but has so many genres intertwined, however death metal is NOT one of them.
     
  4. xzacx

    xzacx SS.org Regular

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    Wait a minute, since when is Roots "early Sepultura." I mean, I get that it's actually old now, but there's a clear delineation between "early Sepultura" and that era. Chaos AD and Roots were when they fell off and became a nu-metal band - those albums don't have anything to do with the ones that came before them. My point is, being influenced by Roots would yield a completely different type of band than Schizophrenia. I've never been able to make it through an entire Gojira song though, so I couldn't say how they fit in here, but they sure never sounded like death metal, or actual early Sepultura, from the couple times I tried listening to them.
     
  5. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    You have Thrash Sepultura 1985-ish to 1992, NĂ¼metal Sepultura 1993-1996, and then New Sepultura 1998-present. I don't see how any of them make me think of Death Metal, personally, but, again, the term has totally different meanings to different people.
     
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  6. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire ERG hoarder/pickup tester

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    I said ROOTS AND EARLIER. Gojira clearly took influence from the ethnic sounds on Roots but overall they still have the DNA from Morbid Visions and Schizophrenia. Joe Duplantier even mentions in interviews that Sepultura were a big influence on them.
    Listen to The Way of All Flesh Album or L'enfant Sauvage, they're very much within the realm of death metal.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  7. Ralyks

    Ralyks The One Who Knocks Contributor

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    As far a Sepultura goes, I would say Bestial Devastation was a death metal record, and Morbid Visions had a big death metal element to it. Schizophrenia is when they went full thrash.
     
  8. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire ERG hoarder/pickup tester

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    I was actually thinking of Gorguts, but I typed Gordian Knot. my bad, I was drinking while typing some of this stuff
     
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  9. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    At least "metal" is one thing we can usually agree on. :lol:

    I think it's a bit sad that some forum users can't "make it through an entire ... song" from Gojira, since Gojira is a kick-ass metal band in any case.

    @KnightBrolaire , comparing the album you posted with, say Morbid Angel's "Altars of Madness" or "Blessed Are the Sick," or Obituary's "World Demise" or Deicide's "Legion" or Cannibal Corpse's "Tomb of the Mutilated," I'm getting a totally different vibe from those five albums than I get from Gojira. That's not to say Gojira is less heavy, on the contrary, I think they are more heavy than those examples, but heaviness =/= death-metal-ness, IMO.

    But this is extremely subjective.

    When I was in my early teens, if a band had a band name that had something to do with death or dead bodies, and had depictions of death or dead bodies on their album covers, and their mixes sounded like a mess of trebly guitars with blast beats that sounded like "taptaptaptaptaptaptaptap..." and vocals that sounded like any sort of farm animal being butchered, I would not hesitate to call the band "death metal." For my eyes and ears, Gojira skirts many of those "requirements" but doesn't fit.

    If I were to do a "Death Metal" thing, I would choose a name of some medical thing out of a medical dictionary, like "Livor Mortis" or something, then choose album art that was zombies eating impaled corpses or something of that nature, and then find a drummer who could do wicked blast beats and a bass player who has no problem not being heard, then get a lead singer from MacDonald's farm down the street (a pig or a cow or a chicken, maybe) and write lyrics about whatever (it doesn't matter because hardly anyone will understand them) and record everything on tinny equipment. :lol:

    A more modern take might be to pick a name that doesn't matter and then have the band's logo be a rose bush, and then do the same, except with marginally better sound quality and a more abstract set of album art.

    I wouldn't want to argue any of these bands are or are not "death metal," since it's really kind of lacking any universal definition of the genre. There's metal, then there's a continuous spectrum of "extreme" metal, and then there's this even more vague axis of how "death metal" a band or album is if it somehow fits in the more extreme end of the spectrum of metal and ticks off certain other boxes, which vary from person to person.
     
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  10. xzacx

    xzacx SS.org Regular

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    Yeah man, I checked it out - it doesn't sound like death metal to me. Being influenced by Sepultura would be further evidence of that, as I don't really think of Seplutura as a death metal band outside of Bestial Devastation. (I'm not saying they don't have elements of it, I just think they were at their best if full thrash mode.) Even then though, I hear a lot more of the Sepultura I don't like in Gojira, than the Sepultura I do like. Never in my life would I be in the mood to listen to death metal, and that be the sound I wanted to hear. Doesn't mean I think it sucks (I do, but that's not my point - I'm happy to not pay attention to music I don't like without criticizing it), it just isn't something that interests me or that I think relates when we're talking about death metal.


    That's me. I just don't get it. I've tried many times. Just not my thing. It's not that I think they suck as a band, they just play stuff that doesn't appeal to me. Cool that other people like them though.
     
  11. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire ERG hoarder/pickup tester

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    It's kind of a running joke at this point about death metal band logos and how nobody can read them, but also how nobody can understand the vocals. I've definitely seen some memes surrounding medical pathologies and how they read off like Carcass, etc lyrics. I think death metal is a bit more inclusive of a term than just tampa/buffalo 90s DM, especially given the different sound between say Obituary and Cannibal Corpse, or later Death/ Morbid Angel.
    Honestly the closest to Gojira as far as 90s DM would be Morbid Angel's Covenant/Domination albums. As far as specific songs I'd say Where the Slime Live, Leading the Rats, Rapture, World of Shit, Vengeance is Mine, God of Emptiness. There is definitely some Sepultura/Death influence mixed in as well.
     
  12. Rosal76

    Rosal76 SS.org Regular

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    It will be a 4 hour show with their different lineups over the years.

    1st hour: With Chris Barnes and Bob Rusay.
    2nd hour: With George Fisher and Rob Barrett.
    3rd hour: With Pat O'Brien.
    4th hour: Current lineup.
     
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  13. xzacx

    xzacx SS.org Regular

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    I totally agree that some of these bands' sounds changed at different points in their careers. As much as I like some Death, there's a pretty decent chunk of their catalog I don't really care for or consider death metal (in my narrow view of the genre). And obviously Morbid Angel has an era that I think a lot of us would like to forget. (I do like their latest album though.) I think that's one of the reasons that I hold Deicide in such high regard. Sure, they've had albums that were better than others, but even after the Hoffman brothers left, they put out solid albums that didn't stray too far from the sound I like.
     
  14. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire ERG hoarder/pickup tester

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    I'm sure I'll get some flak for saying this but I liked Illud. I hated Heretic though.
     
  15. Rosal76

    Rosal76 SS.org Regular

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    Some time ago, I read an interview in which Glen Benton stated that drummer, Steve Ashiem, wrote a good chunk of their music, past and present. I noticed that the inlay cards for their earlier albums always said, "Music written by Deicide" instead of "Music written by Eric and Brian Hoffman" In recent years, though, the inlay cards now credit the individual who wrote what song and I have noticed that Steve is credited with a lot of songwriting.

    Saying all that, I think that's why Deicide is able to retain a sense of continuity with their music because of Steve's long experience with songwriting. :agreed:
     
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  16. Durtal

    Durtal SS.org Regular

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    I hope you're not including Covenant, Domination or Gateway in that era (those being the albums that had the biggest influence on Gojira).

    If you think that death metal is defined by its lyrical themes more than its sound and that Illud is in any way good album, never mind better than Heretic then our views on the genre are too far apart to have a meaningful conversation about it.
     
  17. xzacx

    xzacx SS.org Regular

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    No way - I'm referring to Illud very specifically haha.
     
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  18. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire ERG hoarder/pickup tester

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    It's been a while since i've listened to heretic or Illud. I had them confused, I thought Heretic was the one with the shitty industrial parts, when that was Illud. i fucked up :/
     
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  19. Eptaceros

    Eptaceros Wayfarer Contributor

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    I love me some death metal, but this is an impossible topic. Like others have already said, there are too many influential bands from the early days. All more or less within the same time frame.

    However, I am surprised that Suffocation doesn't have as many mentions here as the other big American bands. There's such a steep drop into brutality when you look at Suffocation compared to other bands of their time. All the other bands still had that thrash-roots stamp in their sound, while Suffocation was doing something way different and absurdly brutal. Also, I'd say that Suffocation has been by far the busiest of the old school DM bands. They're still actively touring!
     
  20. prlgmnr

    prlgmnr ...that kind of idea

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    Now would be a good time to go to Black Metal University:





    I know this thread is about death metal but there's good stuff in there about some of the "precursor" bands.

    I don't think it would be the worst thing if Slayer got "accidentally" lumped in with death metal, a fair percentage of, say, Nile riffs could slot in on Reign in Blood if you dialed back the tempo a tad.

    Having said that, I suppose you can influence a genre without belonging to that genre.

    Ultimately I'm only worried about whether it makes me want to bang my head/drive a tank over a pile of corpses/etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
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