RAN 7 string 3rd fret buzz

Discussion in 'Pickups, Electronics & General Tech' started by lurè, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. lurè

    lurè extended range pizza

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    Yesterday I've put new string on my RAN Crusher 7, adjusted truss-rod and intonation.
    The problem is that there is a terrible buzz when I fret the 3rd fret of string A and D.
    Fret buzz is absent on any other region of the fretboard (including open strings) and action i set perfectly.
    Worst case scenario would probably be a raised 3rd fret but my knowledge on the subject is pretty limited.
    Hope you guys can help.
     
  2. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

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    That’s an odd spot. I can’t think of a set up issue that would cause just buzzing there. Maybe the truss rod is just a bit too tight? If you didn’t change the gauge of strings or tuning and liked the way it played before, you wouldn’t have needed to adjust the truss rod.
     
  3. lurè

    lurè extended range pizza

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    Was trying a new brand of strings with the same gauge as the old ones.
    The new brand seems a little bit tighter so I'm probably going to loose the truss rod a bit and see if it fixes the problem.
     
  4. odibrom

    odibrom .

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    A raised 3rd fret won't cause fretbuzz when pressed, a grooved one though... that can become more evident if the truss rod has been tightened.
     
  5. ECGuitars

    ECGuitars SS.org Regular

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    If you have a buzzing on the third fret, the fourth would be the raised fret just FYI
     
  6. lurè

    lurè extended range pizza

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    I've loosened the truss rod a tiny bit and the buzz desappeared but the action is terribly high so I need to work on that.
    I'm still not sure if the problem is attributable only to a tight truss rod or there's something wrong with the frets. Maybe I'm just too paranoid.
     
  7. Matt08642

    Matt08642 SS.org Regular

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    What is your action and neck relief?

    I've been setting my guitars to have low E action of 5/64" (a bit under 2mm) and high e action to 4/64" (around 1.5mm) with minimal relief, which has been great on all my guitars.
     
  8. lurè

    lurè extended range pizza

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    Action (measured at 12th fret) is actually 3.5 mm for the lowest string and 2.5 mm for the highest: that's high action for my liking.
    Neck relief should be optimal : around 1.5 mm at 10th fret.
    I know I coud work around the neck relief to reach the optimal 1 mm value but considering the previous fret buzz I'd rather lower the action.

    I'm using 11-53+74 string gauge for drop G and the guitar is 27" scale. I don't know if this even matter but I'm planning to get smaller gauges next time.
     
  9. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

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    How are you measuring relief? 1 mm sounds like a huge amount. I fret the D string at the first fret with my left hand and use my right hand to fret right over where the neck joints the body. Then I look under the 7th fret. You should just barely be able to see a gap. Just barely.

    If it needs a lot of relief to avoid buzzing, I’d just take it to someone to have a look. Getting the fretwork and such sorted is money very well spent in my opinion. Otherwise it drives me nuts.
     
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  10. lurè

    lurè extended range pizza

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    I fret the lowest string at the first fret and the fret where the neck joints the body. Then i measure the string-fret distance at the 8th fret. Am I doing it wrong?
     
  11. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

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    That would work fine. But wow you like to have a full millimeter under the string when measuring that way?

    It’s your set up so if you like it that’s great, but for most people that is a lot of relief. Most would have a distance that’s essentially a few sheets of paper thick.
     
  12. Metropolis

    Metropolis SS.org Regular

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    What also matters is action from the 1st fret, how high is the nut, and strings should be laying in the bottom of the nut properly. Which may be too high with that much relief. I've just looked, not measured relief of my guitars with this kind of method from ibanezrules; "As a average and a starting point, on a 430mm 24 fret board, with around .2 - .3mm of relief measured at the 9th with the low E string fretted at the 1st and 24th, and set for light to medium pick hand with minimal low E buzz, measured at the 24th fret - 1.6mm on the wound E and 1.5mm on the high E."

    http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/action.htm
     
  13. lurè

    lurè extended range pizza

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    I'll work on that because it seems that I can't have a lower neck relief without having fret buzz, at least with the current set of string that I'm using. I was thinking to get smaller strings and tighten the truss rod to have lower neck relief.

    Would love to have that low action but I can't without having fet buzz with the current neck relief of 1 mm.
    Haven't considered the nut yet but i'm not having problems of notes going sharp ot intonation.

    Here's what I'm going to do:
    1) Getting smaller strings and thighten the truss rod to have minimal relief and set the action to silly low.
    2) Take measurements of neck relief and action.
    In case the values seem to be too different from the "standard" I'm taking the guitar to a tech.
     
  14. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

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    Where is it buzzing?

    Having a lot of relief can actually make it harder to lower the action because of the geometry. To get the action low-ish in the middle of the neck with lots of relief, the frets have to be way to close to the high frets.

    Straightening the allows the action to be more consistent across the neck and let’s you drop the strings close to the frets in the middle of the neck without sitting on top of the frets higher on the neck.

    It might be worth it to take it into a shop and have it set up and looked over. If there are uneven frets, it’s money well spent fixing that so you can focus on playing and not fussing with a setup. And there may be no problem at all, and you can see first hand how to get it set up yourself.
     
  15. lurè

    lurè extended range pizza

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    Mostly from first to 3rd fret, probably because of an exaggerated relief.
    The central part of the fretboard is fine but the action is quite high (again probably because of the neck relief).
    If i try to reduce the relief to a point where the neck is almost flat I have fret buzz at 3rd fret of A and D string and the overall tension is just too much (strings too thick probably).
     
  16. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

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    I think with that, I’d definitely take it to a pro. Buzzing on just those strings at just the third fret implies that somethings not right. I’m not sure how a set up could either cause or fix that on it’s own.
     
  17. Matt08642

    Matt08642 SS.org Regular

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    A few things:

    - 1mm is a ridiculous amount of relief.
    - I use a 9 gauge string to measure my relief on all my guitars, including my junk ass 15 year old $100 squier.
    - You need to completely set your guitar up and work from there to find out why things are buzzing. you can't have your action 12 feet off the board and the relief set to over a mm and expect to actually find the problem
    - Set the guitar to have minimal (a 10 or 9 gauge string) of relief, then try using a straight edge (credit card, anything straight) and rock across 3 frets all the way up the neck and see what's high and what's low
    - Set the action to where you want it (within reason). Try 2mm at 12th fret on the lowest string and 1.5mm at 12th on the highest string
    - Set the intonation correctly

    Once you've done all this, you can figure out exactly what's wrong and bring to someone who can fix it (if its a few wonky frets, a lot of the time it's a sub $100 fix)
     

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  18. odibrom

    odibrom .

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    You may have a 4th fret taller or grooves on the 3rd. Grooves on one fret means that the string will sit lower than it should and buzz on the next on fret. Take it to a tech to have it setup properly...
     
  19. lurè

    lurè extended range pizza

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    Thanks guys, I'm setting the guitar up again and this time I'll check also the frets.
    I'll update the thread asap.
     
  20. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

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    When I’m setting up a guitar, it:
    1) set the relief. I like it almost straight. Just a very slight amount of space under the string the way we talked about above.
    2) set the action. It use to measure at the 12th fret, but now I measure at the last fret so that the relief of the neck isn’t interfering with what I’m trying to do. Ideally I shoot for just over 1.5 mm off the fret, but it depends on how nicely the frets are done.

    Then you’d play and if there are any trouble spots. If it’s buzzy or strange sounding across all the lower frets, there may not be enough relief. If it’s buzzy across all the high frets, the action probably is too low.

    But if it’s buzzy in just one spot for just one or two strings, that’s probably an issue with uneven frets, unfortunately.
     

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