New Tosin Abasi signature in the works - Abasi Guitars w/Frank Falbo

Discussion in 'Extended Range Guitars' started by HeHasTheJazzHands, Nov 7, 2015.

  1. Randy

    Randy ROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOU Super Moderator

    Messages:
    20,205
    Likes Received:
    3,103
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
    Location:
    The Electric City, NY
    I didn't PERSONALLY think the dark line looked like a gap (I somewhat stated that when I said 'It'd be foolish to try to make a structural claim about what's going on there'), I was referring to whatever is going on to the left and bottom of the joint, right near the corner on the neck itself; not sure if that's filler or what.

    I was just stating that it wasn't an especially attractive joint and if it's a ton of labor having to tape, spray, polish and reclean the spot to where it becomes an issue on a short deadline, that might be something to take into account in the workflow, rather than spending an outsized amount of time cleaning it up every time. And you've been doing this longer than me and you've placed hands on all these, so you'd know better than I what's possible but that's what feedback and constructive criticism is about. I'd hate for legitimate conversation about this to get lost under a pile-on.

    Maybe a dumb question, but is it possible to glue in the neck AFTER finishing? Would it be completely non negotiable to make it bolt-on instead, if it saves a few extra hours work per guitar and sounds just as good?
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
    thesnowdog likes this.
  2. jephjacques

    jephjacques BUTTS LOL

    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
    Having handled one I can't imagine how you'd do a bolt-on version that had the same kind of neck heel. Maybe if you used the Siggi Braun design or a really extreme version of Ran's AANJ.
     
  3. Jonathan20022

    Jonathan20022 Engineer

    Messages:
    4,133
    Likes Received:
    1,382
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Location:
    Somewhere
    I think it's possible to get very close, but you'll always end up having to strengthen the neck joint before it meets the neck so it doesn't end up being too frail. My Blackwater DII got pretty close to the flush style neck joint, but it didn't need anything further, the horns on Blackwaters are so carved that they end up never being in your way in the first place. But then you have neck through/set neck guitars or 1pc guitars like the Aristides

    [​IMG]
    Then the set neck style build is perfectly smooth and seamless, but it also reaches further into the body.

    [​IMG]

    As long as the rest of the guitar's design has thought put into it to make it playable and out of your way, then the bolt on compromise shouldn't affect the difficulty of playing the upper frets too badly.
     
    takotakumi, jemfloral and Randy like this.
  4. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,460
    Likes Received:
    778
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Surely you just look at Claas, Toone, Padalka and Fodera, then decided where to compromise.
     
    Randy likes this.
  5. GXPO

    GXPO SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,329
    Likes Received:
    168
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Location:
    Stevenage, Greater London
    We're a sensitive bunch for sure but with good reason. For the market these are being presented to there is an expectation of finesse, not necessarily perfection but a level of detail or scrutiny which might be a little bit higher than some would expect elsewhere. If you hop over to the Padalka thread as stated above the guy is making guitars of a similar breed to a standard which no one has been able to find fault with yet (of which I'm aware).

    It's great that Frank is in here doing his best to address the issues but so far, every stage of a completed guitar which pictures have been available for has raised questions. It turns me off as a potential buyer. I look forward to seeing the second batch with the kinks ironed out and/or the NGDs with (near)perfect guitars.

    EDIT: I should mention that none of the pictures turns me off as much as my inability to buy one due to lack of actual money.
     
    Ataraxia2320 and bostjan like this.
  6. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    6,191
    Likes Received:
    3,425
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Location:
    Tokyo
    Somehow lately I've noticed more and more posts trying to phrase the forum as super sensitive to build imperfections and the like, almost as if the guitars being scrutinized weren't being sold for 400-500% the price of a totally playable, great-sounding instrument.

    You know, like don't fuss about that door on your Ferrari isn't 100% perfect and it doesn't close shut firmly -- it's just the door -- doesn't effect how it drives. Don't be so sensitive. I thought you were drivers, not door fanatics.
     
  7. Albake21

    Albake21 "Just get a used Ibanez Prestige."

    Messages:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    549
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I guess the problem is, when you are paying for the super expensive Ferari, you would expect to not find any problems regardless of what they may be. Just like guitars, you are paying the premium for a reason. If the premium/Ferrari has problems, then what's the difference between buying the Ferrari or just buying the cheaper Corvette. Both are super cars and both get the job very well done. Same thing applies with guitars.
     
  8. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    6,191
    Likes Received:
    3,425
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Location:
    Tokyo
    Exactly. And Ferrari doesn't ship a bunch of dodgy guitars to Japan because some people really want them and don't care about the doors closely properly. You do something like that, you know, guitars aren't bonded to a person for forever. They get sold, they move around. People look them over and form opinions of them, tell their friends, etc. If you don't want a so-so rep, you need to bring A-game on day 1, and not just be offering to retroactively repair the things you put out in the world, that were admittedly below the quality level you're aiming for.

    When Doug @ blackmachine builds a guitar he's not happy with, he burns it. PRS saws it in half. Taku Sakashta let a customer play his guitar but wouldn't let him take delivery of it without doing a complete refin on it, on like a super fancy archtop, because there was a blemish that bothered Taku, that the customer couldn't even really see it.

    Kiesel ships guitars that used obviously the wrong version hipshot for that neck angle and with the saddles cranked all the way up, denies it, and gives some excuse about how it doesn't matter.

    You know, choose your heroes.
     
  9. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,635
    Likes Received:
    964
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    Location:
    china
    tbh Ferrari's are kinda of shit shows

    also this. PRS destroys a lot of guitars.
     
  10. Lemonbaby

    Lemonbaby SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    464
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    You're paying the legend - tolerances e.g. the gaps between metal parts are smaller and more even on any Volkswagen.
     
    I play music likes this.
  11. frank falbo

    frank falbo SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    401
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Location:
    Ventura, CA
    Well, the only possible difference in the analogy is that with a hand made guitar, you’re paying for things like wood selection, the meticulous joining of the two pieces of the neck blank, the design elements, the hand carving of all of the transitions, etc.

    That’s not an excuse for cosmetic/paint incompletions, and I don’t submit it as such. But it’s where I seek accuracy in the representation, and am devastated if someone accuses us of “gaps and glue residue” when the only thing they are really seeing is clear paint running up onto a surface. (But the surface itself having been meticulously hand-fit and sculpted perfectly)

    As for the guitar that started this drama, it was already sold a few days ago. So someone looked at it, in person, played it, and decided it was worth what they paid in every area that was important to them.
     
  12. Albake21

    Albake21 "Just get a used Ibanez Prestige."

    Messages:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    549
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    At the end of the day, I still have a big interest in the guitars. I guess all you can do is learn from these mistakes and grow even bigger with the company in the next batches. It sucks a few guitars had these problems, but I know now these won't happen any future builds.

    By the way, a bit off topic, but will you be at GearFest with Tosin and the rest of the Fishman guys?
     
  13. frank falbo

    frank falbo SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    401
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Location:
    Ventura, CA
    Not sure. Sweetwater is a big Fishman dealer but we haven’t opened them as an Abasi dealer yet and won’t be doing so until we clear out about a hundred more of the guitars in queue.

    I guess what I was trying to say above is that with a guitar, more often it’s the way it sounds and plays that take precedence over a finish flaw or if a guitar got a dent in shipping or at the guitar store. Those things may affect the perceived value of course, but not the way the guitar plays or sounds, or feels to play, or the overall enjoyment of ownership.
     
  14. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,460
    Likes Received:
    778
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    A Corvette is a sports car.

    Now, my current best sounding and playing guitar is a mongrel made of parts that failed QC at a very good Californian custom shop, so I'll admit that the best guitars aren't always the immaculate ones. But it goes both ways. I've played some amazing playing and sounding guitars from Indonesian and Korean factories. They also didn't have finish flaws, so when I spend 10 times the amount on a high end handmade guitar I expect it to have at least the finish quality of cheaper guitars, along with the wood selection and wood working etc.

    I can spend $3000 to $4000 in a lot of places and get a perfect guitar. I don't see why I'd sacrifice a high level of finish just to have a particular offset single cut shape.
     
  15. wannabguitarist

    wannabguitarist Contributor

    Messages:
    4,583
    Likes Received:
    495
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2007
    Location:
    San Diego CA
    Not really a great analogy given that up until fairly recently Ferrari's road cars were very poorly built. There was actual a full run of 456s in the 90's that all had poorly fitting doors. Ferrari didn't give a shit :lol:
     
  16. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,460
    Likes Received:
    778
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    But in the 90s Ferrari made crap cars and everyone knew it. Which is sort of the idea here.
     
    thesnowdog likes this.
  17. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    6,191
    Likes Received:
    3,425
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Location:
    Tokyo
    This is always why I hesitate to do car analogies but conceptually just replace with whatever high end car that people appreciate for it's engineering and precision.
     
    thesnowdog likes this.
  18. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,460
    Likes Received:
    778
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    McLaren. Always McLaren. Ron Dennis is a weird dude.
     
    wannabguitarist likes this.
  19. jephjacques

    jephjacques BUTTS LOL

    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
    Wait can you get Fishmans installed in a McLaren now???
     
  20. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,460
    Likes Received:
    778
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    I wouldn't go active pickups in a McLaren. They've had serious problems with their battery systems lately.
     

Share This Page