Medical people: your thoughts?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by bostjan, Jun 19, 2018.

  1. sawtoothscream

    sawtoothscream SS.org Regular

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    If I go to the er I don't expect everyone to be in a pleasant mood. It's a stressful environment and even the best will have a bad day.
     
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  2. lurè

    lurè Thy Art Is Mambo

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    I'm totally with the doctor.
    In Italy Rivotril (Klonopin) is used only as an antiepileptic drug and the guy doesn't seem he's having a seizure.
    I know in USA regulamentation is different but I don't think you just get a pill of Klonopin after just saying "I have anxiety".
     
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  3. Edika

    Edika SS.org Regular

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    I'll go with the doctor on this too. Even though she could have handled it better we don't know what transpired before, if she tried to explain that there was nothing wrong with the dude and they kept insisting or she was just having a bad day. I always love how people make snap judgements and get emotionally invested about thinga they have no idea about from the comfort of their couch or desk chair. I'm not a medical doctor but my sister and brother in law are. I've seen how tiring and mentally demanding is working in ER and having to do that with a couple of hours of sleep fir 24 or 48 hours. Having to deal with people in severe situations and having to make snap decisions that will save their lives or not is not something that someone can comprehend easily unless they are in that position. Regular folks have the notion that MD's have the time, the training and the clarity of mind to deal with all and any situation. That is not the case and while most doctors manage to do a really good job it does take a big toll on them.

    So being a bit testy for sonebody not having a life threatening condition taking more time than he should, that is a valuable commodity for ER, is not something requiring the doctor loosing their job and an internet uproar from the dumb dumb brigade. If they get that easily insulted I suggest they go to a homeopathic witch "doctor" next. They'll get service with a smile but no much in the sense of treatment.
     
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  4. cwhitey2

    cwhitey2 BlackendCrust Metal™

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    I'm with the doctor.

    I waited 4 hours in the ER and I broke my foot the fuck off. I was in beyond serious pain...and I just there and waited my turn...while people with life threatening injuries were 'saved first', as they should be.

    What the hell is a doctor going to do for his anxiety...? These kind of patients/people are exactly what's wrong with this country.
     
  5. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Ok, I'm pleased to see that we are mostly in agreement here, as I consider the forum more reasonable than the average group of internet folk, especially the people responding in the thread so far.

    VT has, IIRC, the third highest tax rate in the USA. Last weekend, we had a protest march in my town of people carrying banners stating "Health Care is a Basic Human Right!" and some of them were actually shouting that they wanted free healthcare. Maybe my comments were sweepingly general, but there is a portion of the populace who are treating the issue as simply as I stated. Honestly, I don't know how many people think that way, but there are enough of them being loud enough to make us all look kind of dumb.

    I'm not opposed to single payer. Not at all, actually. What I am totally opposed to, is this sort of patchwork system of single payer for some people, insurance coverage for others, and nothing at all for the people who seem to need it most. The idea of "Obamacare" was nifty, but the compromises that had to be made in order to get it through congress made it into a hot mess. Furthermore, I still think that the issue is not only not being addressed, but I think that the lobbyists and lobby groups for the corporations who profit the most from sick people being sick benefited from the mess that ended up passing through the legislature as the American Affordable Care Act.

    To say that "if we moved to a single payer plan, we would save a lot of money on healthcare," is a bit of a conjecture, but I can say that, in my opinion, that's probably correct. And saying "look at places who have single payer systems, their healthcare is cheaper," is certainly true, but I'm dubious about the causality. I think if you read my opinions above as to why health care in the USA is so astronomically expensive, you'll get a good feel as to why I'm very cautious about that line of thinking. But I'll put this forward as well: I think that if the USA was on a single-payer system, we'd be in a much better position to excise the corruption in the healthcare system that feeds off of the confusion and is inflating our health care costs beyond all reason. Whether we take advantage of that position or not is difficult to say. Under the current administration and with the current legislature, I really have no confidence in any predictions.

    Come on, Max, you know you are quoting me out of context there. If you read that statement along with the rest of the paragraph it's in, it's not even at all controversial.
     
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  6. Exchanger

    Exchanger SS.org Regular

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    Adding a bit of water to that mill, I remember that video treating the topic of healthcare funding quite well :


    especially after 3min. I see now he even made a few more video on the topic
     
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  7. Rawkmann

    Rawkmann SS.org Regular

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    There’s been a couple times where I was probably suffering from an anxiety attack and didn’t know it (shortness of breath before passing out), but all I thought was “Oh well, guess it’s my time”
     
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  8. NateFalcon

    NateFalcon Party’s over

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    People are extremely selfish...the ER is for...well, emergencies. People often run to the ER for every discomfort and wonder why they’re getting put on the back burner as gunshot, trauma patients etc are being tended to. This kind of bitching and whining sickens me. The ER is a good place to learn a lesson in social status, ie: you’re a fucking “nobody” lol. Anxiety and panic disorders require long term treatment from a mental health professional(s)- not ER treatment. Also note the ER is regularly flooded with addicts and junkies looking for painkillers and pharmas using every excuse under the sun. A ligitimate ‘Psychotic break’ posing a physical danger is a different story, but “panic” and “anxiety” are very overused terms from a physiological standpoint. It would be impossible to keep track of mental health issues from an ER intake perspective when half of the patients are usually exaggerating at least slightly to obtain a “preferred” outcome on their end. What the patient wants and what they need are often two different things...if you’re not dying, stop whining- there’s children with cancer and leukemia who have to fight for their lives everyday...
     
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  9. Randy

    Randy ROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOU Super Moderator

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    I get your frustrations but that's an oversimplification of the situation. I mean, you're right that people go to the ER for nonsense. But recently I had someone close to me displaying symptoms that could potentially range from a mild stroke to blood clots, brain bleeding or a tumor. There wasn't a single catastrophic event, it was a moving migraine that didn't stop for over a week. They did as you're told, went to the primary doctor who scheduled them for an appointment with the neurologist THREE MONTHS later. The migraines persisted, so we went back to the primary who ordered a CT scan but had to wait for insurance to clear it, which took another week before they ultimately rejected it without an explanation. When they contact the insurance company, they said procedure said they needed an ultrasound first (they were concerned there could be a cancer situation in the lymphnodes) before they might clear a CT scan. So they got that done, no problem there but still ended up at the CT scan, which was resubmitted to insurance and waited another 3 or 4 days with no answers, so called again and they said the insurance company won't hear a second request until they waited another 45 days! I resisted going to the emergency room, so my last effort was trying to call urgent care and when they hear what was going on they said "no go to the ER". So, eventually we ended up in the ER and were sitting with results from a CT scan within a half-hour.

    The point being, the healthcare system is SO broken (still), that you have to 'hack the system' as an everyday part of getting care or treatment. You'll probably find out a good number of the people that end up in the ER for bumps and bruises are there because their insurance company won't cover a trip to their primary or a specialist in a reasonable time frame, but they'll cover an ER visit no questions asked. It's fucked.
     
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  10. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    That's an interesting take on it.

    I think where I agree with the vlogger is that free market principles and whatever we have for healthcare are at odds with each other, but I think that the whole idea of not shopping around for the best price simply because it's your own health is not really a point that can be made without also simply assuming that it is the case.

    So - Why wouldn't people want to save money on their medical bills?

    Maybe they don't think they can. Maybe they are more apt to assume that the price is what it is, and they can't get away from it. Maybe that's why a lot of rich people go to Switzerland or wherever to get their kidney surgery. Maybe the poor people don't have such a choice. I do recall that there was a startup back in the early 2000's that wanted to open a chain of imaging facilities that would provide low-cost CT scans, x-rays, MRI, PET, etc. I thought it was a cool idea, but it never came about. Why do you think that is?

    Maybe the issue is access. I'm in the ER because I broke my elbow. The ER referred a physician to perform surgery on my elbow to screw it back together. As long as I'm in the ER, what other options do I have, in real practice?

    Maybe the problem is another kind of access... This is maybe a little more difficult to follow, but here in the USA, I'm not sure if it's a widespread policy, but, everywhere I've ever lived, essentially every specialist in every subfield of medicine requires a referral just to talk to you. It seems to be in place so that you aren't wasting the specialist's time, but, all too often, these specialists' offices are notably less busy than the PCP's office, and especially less busy than the ER. So, at least in 100% of my experience, if I go to my PCP with X issue, the PCP's office will refer me to a specialist, who would not otherwise see me. One specialist, not two, not three, ... So, if I need any procedure that cannot be done at the PCP's office, then I have only one option. So, obviously, I can't shop around. I do recall, when I was a kid, my parents calling different specialists and shopping around a little bit, but that stopped around 2001-2003 or so, when those specialists started requiring a referral.

    ----

    I think the part of this point that doesn't sit right with me, at least how it was presented on the surface, is that medical expenses in the USA were not a problem for most people in the 1980's or 1990's, then, very suddenly, in the 2000's, they were a huge problem. The government did not bid on medical contracts before and then stop doing it after. No, there's something more to it than that. This whole process in place to limit most people's access to choice.

    Seriously, if you live in America, when was the last time you were presented with more than one option for anything other than who you went to for primary care?

    And, since this happened systematically at pretty much all doctor's offices around the same couple of years across the country, or at least enough of the country that someone who lived in three different states would notice the simultaneity, it must have been deliberate.

    Another layer to all of this is insurance. My insurance provider only covers visits to Dr.'s X Y and Z. If I go see Dr. A, I'm paying for it myself. All insurers in the USA work this way. And that started around the same time. It's this greater idea of healthcare provider networks. But why is this a thing?
     
  11. groverj3

    groverj3 Biologist/Guitarist

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    Maybe this is simplistic, but I've always thought that the idea of "choices" and "free market principles" in healthcare is nothing more than talking points divorced from reality.

    If you get horribly injured and are in an ER with very little time for decisions, if you're even conscious, it's not likely you'll be weighing your options for care. If you even have enough knowledge to make some sort of informed decision. If you need some sort of surgery that you can plan for, do you really want to "shop around" for the cheapest option? I sure as hell would not be shopping around for the cheapest brain surgeon, etc.
     
  12. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Well, a number of huge problems with "shopping around" for brain surgery includes:

    1. Physicians in the US are unlikely to give you an accurate quote, at least from my first hand experience (a non-binding quote for $1500 becomes $24000, for example, an increase of 1500%).
    2. Most insurance networks in the USA only include a handful of options, meaning you'll be "shopping around" at maybe two or three different surgeon's offices, if you expect insurance to cover anything.
    3. You need a referral from your PCP in order to even get a surgeon to talk to you in the first place, usually, so that further limits your choices to one choice.

    Any one of those three troubles is enough to torpedo the idea of "shopping around." In my opinion, at least. I suppose folks who are available to travel anywhere in the world, who can operate without insurance and who have good attorneys and a PCP on on a special retainer (i.e. exceptionally rich people) don't have to worry about this.
     
  13. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Double billed post
     
  14. possumkiller

    possumkiller Goose stepping in front of a mirror

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    I'm calling you out on your artificial post count inflation tactic...
     
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  15. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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    And if the insurance company limits you to in network surgeons, they've all already agreed to accept the same payment from the insurance company for a given procedure, so you won't save any money by shopping around, you'll just get a feel for who the better surgeon is, who has the best bedside manner, etc.
     

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