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Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by BenjaminW, Jul 20, 2017.
I hope the money makes its way to the family of the killed soldier, but still, you can't conflate two things. You can't torture your citizens, regardless of what types of things they've been responsible for. So it's an unfortunate outcome in practice, but I think the statement of this payout -- that we will defend the human rights of our citizens, and we will be accountable for violations of their rights -- is clear.
Why isn't everyone involved in the operation of Guantanamo Bay imprisoned for violating the law? I thought that torture was against domestic and international law. Why and how is it allowed to even happen?
You know, when Obama was first campaigning for president he outright lied to us when he told us he would shut it down. To my knowledge he didn't even attempt to do a single thing about Guantanamo Bay and the illegal torture operations that are ordered there. It's fucking embarrassing and makes our nation look and feel filthy.
I agree with you. I never liked Obama but I have no interest right now to go on a giant rant about Obama so I'll just end what I'm gonna say here.
One of his first executive orders was a directive for whichever department was responsible for that debacle to have a plan to shut it down within 100 days. And, the headcount dropped exponentially under Obama's tenure. If you want to point to areas where Obama may have been somewhat naive, however, I don't think he realized how difficult it would be to shut down, and how difficult it would be to move prisoners.
To your broader question, though, I think if you're the largest military power in the world, people tend to think twice about charging you for war crimes, even when presented with clear evidence. Additionally, we only recognize the International Court of Justice's jurisdiction on a case by case basis, so there's no good way to charge us if we don't want to be charged. I'm not saying I support this, mind you - there's value in transparency and accountability.
Specifc to the settlement, isn't this with respect to a crime Khadr was alleged to have committed at 15? And that the settlement was in repayment for the torture he was subjected to at Gitmo?
I hate it when I agree with fox anchors, but paying 8 million is reprehensible.
As for he question of torture, the overwhelming evidence is that it leads to unreliable answers. There is a narrow range of situations where I find it morally justified, but as policy, it doesn't make good sense. Western governments can improve on mistakes made, but this isn't how to do it.
The article says he owes 134 million to the dead soldier's family. So I'm pretty sure he's not going to get to touch any of that 8 mil. It's more like trading [classified] number of years of torture for reducing punitive damages from 134 mil to 128 mil
edit: but I guess they can't freeze his assets? I don't really understand what that means, but he still owes the money, right?
But it's much easier to get the internet mob stirred up by just shouting "look, that guy's giving money to TERRORISTS!", and for some odd reason there's an audience just lined up and ready with their e-pitchforks for pretty much any dirt they can get on [insert anyone with some authority who's not "on their political side"]. There's no shortage of people who want to paint Trudeau as a terrorist to justify whatever their political leanings are that don't align with his.
I really don't understand politics.
United States and Canadian legal systems are involved so damages and frozen assets get complicated. What happens with the money remains to be seen, but suppose it does go to the widow. Why should Canada pay the damages? What does it mean to set the precedent that people involved in (alleged) terrorist activity can have a right to compensation for (alleged) mistreatment in captivity?
Except this is literally what happened. Just because this story is spreading faster in some networks doesn't mean the payment was right, even if some of the people who are outraged are outraged for the wrong reasons.
Did Canada send him to Gitmo? If they did, then that seems like a kind of reason.
But what perplexes me is that Guantanamo Bay, as an illegal torture concentration camp, is who owns and operates it? Who specifically is ordering folks to lock accused people up without trial and torture them?? Because that is who deserves to be financially raped for their crimes, as opposed to Canadian taxpayers.
I thought that was already a precedent? If a person was wronged in such a way that there should be compensation, then their alleged terrorism is a separate/unrelated issue, I would think.
I don't know the whole story, but I don't think "literally" is quite the right word for this.
This was the 8th such Gitmo related payment for alleged Canadian complicitness, so yeah, there's precident.
The entire point is that the Canadian government was complicit in the violation of a citizen's (and a minor's) Charter rights. Both Liberal and Conservative governments turned a blind eye while a Canadian was tortured and had "confessions" extracted under duress without even the semblance of a fair trial.
Khadr had grounds to sue for much more than what the settlement awarded him, and had the government continued to fight it, we'd be paying through the nose.
Ultimately, I hear a lot about Khadr being a terrorist (by all accounts, he is an upstanding citizen despite the actions of a horrible father and a stolen childhood), but first and foremost, he is a Canadian. If Charter rights don't matter for him, or for any other Canadian the mob decides it want's to string up, then they don't matter for anyone, period. At which point I would ask, what exactly are our soldiers supposed to be fighting for? What values do we have if we don't value universal human rights?
I second that.
Holy shit, we're all agreeing. Quick, someone say something offensive!
Let me just go ask Trump uh I mean Eternal God Emperor of the World what I can say about Rosie O'Donnell...
For anyone interested in reality instead of Fox News' Bullshit feel free to read these:
Canadian Government violated a Canadian Citisen's rights.
Canadian government spent taxpayer money to the Tune of $120 million losing court cases.
New Governments shuts the fuck up, realises they can't over rule the courts and rule of law and settles for less than half of what Citisen would easily be awarded by the Supreme Court.
People produced to lose their shit because they are complete fucking morons.
I did not vote for Trudeau and the Liberals, actively campaigned against them even, and have been perhaps unduly critical of his governance, but you know what?
I'm pretty fucking glad to have the people in charge of my country respecting the laws of the country.