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Discussion in 'Sevenstring Guitars' started by MrYakob, Jan 26, 2016.
you mean the toilet seat? hehehe
Spoon, toilet seat, it's all good
I live that shovel life
Honestly, I would've wanted a 7-string shovel myself, but I can't put my faith in the trem. If they make one with a Floyd I might go for it.
EDIT: They cost over $3K... Then no. Never.
Most stable Trem I’ve used brother
I’m digging ditches
Somehow I can't help but doubt that. It's not even a locking tremolo.
For what its worth, EBMM trems are some of the most stable non-locking systems in the market.
Well it’s not locked at the nut but I think the locking tuners do the job. I hardly ever retune my guitars. I do go crazy sometimes with Dimebag-sequel squeals and it maintains. Believe it or not.
A LOT of shredders use EBMM trems heavily. It’s not a secret that they’re amazingly stable. They’re proprietary on $2-3k+ Guitars. People wouldn’t buy them if they were bad.
I’d actually argue that their stability and comfort has in recent years made many artists consider other non-locking trems as viable in lieu of just throwing a Floyd style trem on everything.
It is actually insanely stable without being a dual locking system. Floyds are still MORE stable, but if you actually tried one you'd see what the folks mean. You can abuse it pretty heavily and maybe retune after 30 minutes of constant abuse.
It will fail quicker than a Floyd/Ibby Edge setup perfectly though, and that's coming from someone who's had like 20+ JP's and I now have more Floyds in my collection that EBMM trems.
There are a ton of factors to it, EBMM taking the time to actually slot the nut properly, lubricating the posts/nut, etc. All you have to do as a user is lubricate the nut and posts maybe every other string change and you're solid. Of course if you stick 11's on a nut slotted for 10's it won't stay in tune until you widen the nut appropriately. So in that essence it requires more work to change between tunings and gauges that are thicker, and with Floyd's nut you never need to do any of that work, just clamp and you're good.
EBMM Trem Pros
Extremely Easy to setup
Intonation is easily accessible
Changing Tunings is quicker (No locking nut, trem not throwing tantrums when you adjust springs as much as Floyds)
As responsive as Floyds flutter and dive/pull up range is nice
EBMM Trem Cons
Gauge change will require work to maintain stability
Lubrication needed every once in awhile to maintain stability
That's how I'd put it, you can definitely be skeptical as I also was before getting one. But they work as intended, just require a bit more effort but you can argue it balances out with the Floyd's finnicky-ness and intonation setup hell.
I was also trying to find a video on Photobucket which sadly seems to be gone forever at this point, one of the EBMM forum members NorrinRadd filmed himself pulling the trem up and down for a minute straight with a pedal tuner before the video and after all the abuse checking the tuning. The only string that was slightly out was the G flat by only 1-2 cents.
Honestly, I didn't mind the Floyd all that much. The one I had was a dud so the quality wore out quickly, but Edge Zero II... That thing's deadly regardless of how you look at it.
Also, to be frank, I'm actually a fan of locking trems. Kahler just ain't tight enough.
Yeah I'm rocking Lo Pro Edge/OFR/Gotoh Floyds right now and they're all really nice to play. Once they're set I have to only really fine tune if I haven't touched one in awhile.
Yea but those things are actually well worth the hassle though. I'd much rather have that than a bridge that I can't trust.
Dont the trucci trems have roller saddles to help reduce friction?
Nope. You're probably confusing the Piezo elements.
It's just a floating, two post trem. Nothing special. Not sure why there's some weird mythos around it.
EBMM just doesn't make crappy guitars with crappy nuts with creaky necks. There's no mystery to why they stay in tune when setup.
Likewise with Suhr and the Gotoh 510, or any non locking trem from a decent manufacturer. When the setup is right, it works!
It would be super lame if it just comes out as a slightly modified Majesty, I remember him claiming it was gonna look like a weapon from Final Fantasy a while back.
That would be sick.
I played with a Majesty for a bit. The trem did not come back to tune after a full dive, just like every other non-locking trem I’ve used. Otherwise it did fine.
That's pretty much it in a nutshell, yeah. As for the mythos, you sort of answered your own question:
Firstly, let's go back to 1977. The Floyd Rose hits the market and becomes extremely dominant by the 1980s. Practically every metal or shred guy that played a trem was using one, which also meant not much innovation was going on with traditional floating trems. There just wasn't much need when their appeal in the post-Floyd market was yoked to their traditional design. Obviously we could quibble over some of the details here, such as some of the incremental changes made along the way, but where EBMM diverges from this history is in 2000, when Petrucci jumps ship from Ibanez and starts working on a series of prototypes that would later become his first signature Music Man guitar. Importantly, the earliest prototypes did not use the 'Petrucci Tremolo', but a traditional floating tremolo that was used on the Silhouette and some other EBMM models. For example, there is the 'Black Fire' prototype now owned by a collector on the EBMM boards (photos and info on his website here), and you can see the bridge is a bit different from the final version of the guitar; as it is, 'Black Fire' was one of the last prototypes made before production, so you're already seeing the bridge toward the end of its design phase. I am not sure if any prototypes were built with floyds even though there seem to have been plans to at one point--it would seem an obvious first step, given that Petrucci was a Floyd player for more than a decade up to this point--but I believe it was EBMM's call to use a proprietary bridge, undoubtedly for business reasons rather than an attempt to reinvent the wheel. This meant that the EBMM Petrucci tremolo started life as a traditional trem that was then backwards engineered to feel more like a Floyd and to emulate it's tuning stability.
Keep in mind that the Petrucci trem might be the only 'traditional floating trem' to be designed in this way. I know PRS can also be a bit bullheaded when it comes to these sort of things, but where most other manufacturers would simply license a Floyd Design, Sterling Ball wanted to start from the ground up with the ultimate aim of creating a bridge that would satisfy JP's needs of a Floyd Rose. So when the bridge premiered on the market, obviously people would have struggled to describe it's feel compared to other floating trems, traditional OR double locking. It's an enduring problem, as the discussion above illustrates. However, what it did engender was this mythos that the Petrucci trem didn't feel at all like the ones on those 'crappy guitars with crappy nuts and creaky necks' (as you put it, Max)--because that was more or less a short hand for describing traditional trems on traditional guitars that this one resembled, but didn't aim to emulate. Going further back, it's really a problem of a market that bifurcated into traditional tremolos and Floyds, and the confusion inherent to advertising a bridge in that market that looked like the former but played like the latter. Sometimes it's easier just to say 'the EBMM tremolo is sort of its own beast...you need to play it to understand'. Thus 'the mythos'.
One last thing: when I was googling for some higher quality pictures of the Black Fire prototype, I found a thread on the EBMM forums that linked to a youtube video series of John playing the guitar in a clinic in 2000 or 2001. In the 5th video in that series, he talks specifically about the bridge (video below):
So that would imply he still wanted to use a Floyd. It's my own belief that there was probably encouragement from Sterling Ball to stick with the proprietary bridge because it was better for EBMM in the end. Whatever the history, what we wound up with was a very high quality bridge that was designed to do all the things Petrucci does on a Floyd--bolding that part because it should be the only caveat one needs to give about this bridge. It might feel like a Floyd in some ways, but it's not a Floyd replacement for Dimebag, it was a Floyd replacement for Petrucci. Which is to say it can do divebombs and all that nonsense if you want to, but it performs best when used with a set of .10s and played in his style (e.g. with some flutter, light vibrato, and so on).