Is Trump really gonna get there ?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. Randy

    Randy ROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOU Super Moderator

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    I like how you confine your impartiality to the odd one or two lines of lip services, then proceed to castigate only one side of the political spectrum at length.
     
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  2. Flappydoodle

    Flappydoodle SS.org Regular

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    Erm... maybe that's because he specifically asked me to talk about left wing media?

    Perhaps you should go and follow the whole interaction before selecting out one sentence to make a snide comment. Here are some quotes from him asking me to address this:

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    .

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    I hope that's clear now why I specifically addressed left wing bias in my short paragraph. Hell, we've already been Kindly assured that there is a landslide of examples from the right, so I don't need to contribute any.
     
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  3. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    Lol nvm
     
  4. Randy

    Randy ROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOU Super Moderator

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    Pot, kettle, etc.

    I was referring to your posts here in totality.
     
  5. jaxadam

    jaxadam SS.org Regular

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    Careful flappydoodle, these guys and gals in here aren’t used to conversing with one who possesses your talents. You’ll end up really throwing them off, and as Explorer’s username implies, it may resort to exploring your post history. So far the conspiracy theory is you can teleport based on currency activity.

    Now for my typical contribution:

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Flappydoodle

    Flappydoodle SS.org Regular

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    Oh ok. Well, as I said, it seems like attacks on the right win had already been taken care of others.

    I simply want to point out that BOTH sides are absolutely insane recently. Switching TV stations is like switching between two alternate versions of the universe - and neither is based in reality.

    Let me be crystal clear then - Hannity/Maddow and Fox/CNN are just as bad as each other. And while, IMO, Trump has some valid points of view, he usually ruins it by communicating them terribly, and he has so far totally failed to run a competent government which can achieve his goals. Everybody around him, including himself, just seems to say and do whatever the fuck they feel like on any particular day without any consideration for long-term goals.
     
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  7. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    @Flappydoodle - It's not an attack to note that you haven't been capable of providing evidence of your claims. @jaxadam might think that spouting unsupported claims is some sort of talent, and for some that may be true. Hey, why actually use facts to build one's worldview when ignorance is spontaneous?

    Who knows, though? You might come through with examples supporting your claim that Maddow and CNN have promoted the same quantities of falsehoods as Hannity and Fox. I'll be interested in hearing such evidence, if your talent extends to actually supporting your claims with evidence.

    If you decide to step up, I'm happy to learn and consider. Such evidence should be easy to provide if true. If no evidence is given, that's good to know too.
     
  8. Flappydoodle

    Flappydoodle SS.org Regular

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    You're being silly, and your bias is clearly clouding your judgement. Off the top of my head, I can provide a few examples of times CNN reported falsehoods (Russia hacking the US power grid, Comey's expected testimony contradicting Trump, Trump Jr. getting advance info from Wikileaks, Scaramucci being in contact with Russians...). But I suppose you'll have excuses for those, or you'll just keep assuring me that Fox is worse (though funnily enough, you didn't provide evidence either despite asserting it five times now).

    I will say that it's fair for outlets make mistakes sometimes. But, isn't it funny that all of their mistakes are negative stories about Trump which feed into their larger narratives. You'd think that half of the time they'd falsely report something good about him, right?

    Those were just times when CNN was completely wrong. My larger point is that you can tune in any time and see them melting down over an incoming constitutional crisis (any day now!), indulging in mental health conspiracies, getting celebrity doctors to talk about how many diet cokes he drinks, analysing his tweet typos for secret messages, getting body language experts to analyse his handshakes etc etc. You can't possibly see any of that and think it's unbiased, objective or fair. Then you have the even more subtle narrative crafting - like finding the dumbest, racist supporters of his to interview, or putting a story about Putin immediately after a story about Trump, even the careful word choices - "tantrum" and "outburst", designed to depict a childlike mentality. When you take a step back and look at it, it's really obvious and really really funny - hence my interest. (And yes, for the record, Fox is the same in the other direction).

    As a side note from Trump, consider that ALL TV media is about keeping viewers fixated for long enough to show them ads. That's why every commercial channel is full of speculation, pointless discussion, opinion, and anything else to keep you outraged/addicted and keep your eyeballs on the screen. That's why they need narratives and pundits and lots of lively discussions - because attempts at unbiased fact presentation would be boring and nobody would watch it. Keep that in mind when choosing what to believe. It's more likely you just enjoy hearing things which agree with your world view. All human beings do.

    Lastly, I always find it amusing when people sanctimoniously claim to base everything on facts. Even an entry level knowledge of psychology reveals that the human brain is incapable of thinking that way for very long. Instead, we simplify things, choose a narrative which makes sense to us, then reverse engineer things to fit our prior beliefs while ignoring evidence to the contrary. Every single person does it, regardless of how rational they claim to be. Only in a few fields can be this be over-ruled by group consensus.

    Even statistics like unemployment, education standards or economic figures can be spun in whatever way suits your narrative. When it comes to anything more complex, it's basically impossible to know what is true. If you really want to question yourself, check out the book "Thinking Fast and Slow" which is a nice introduction to the topic. Once you learn how easily manipulated your own brain is, it becomes much harder to be sure about anything.
     
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  9. eggy in a bready

    eggy in a bready SS.org Regular

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    HAHAHAHA. in your fucking dreams
     
  10. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    What are you talking about?
     
  11. synrgy

    synrgy Ya ya ya I am Lorde

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    According to Google, this:

    upload_2018-5-29_10-45-46.png
     
  12. synrgy

    synrgy Ya ya ya I am Lorde

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  13. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Yes, and in those cases, I do believe DHS did actually publish a report that said what CNN said.

    I was thinking more along the lines of a local story that was reported here in Vermont, that Russians had successfully hacked a power grid computer here, and that story turned out to be partially bogus, but that was not reported by CNN; it was the Washington Post, and they printed a retraction/edited version soon after. But, in that case, there was some malicious software on one of the power company's computers, and it was placed there by hackers from Russia, it just wasn't a grid computer.

    I get the feeling that the claim that CNN falsely reported that Russian hackers were trying to get into the US power grid is somehow missing a detail or introducing a false detail.
     
  14. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man

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    It depends on who we’re considering a respectable and/or left wing outlet, but I’ve been seeing an incredible amount of dishonesty in regard to Jordan Peterson coming from sources like New York Times, Vox, Salon, Slate, etc.. They’ve cast him as a right-wing thought leader, which is either blatantly wrong, or they define right-wing as anything to the right of pro-Communism and the nihilistic rejection of all tradition.
     
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  15. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Yeah, Flappydoodle, I don't think that anyone's questioning that CNN and Fox have diametrically different viewpoints. That's pretty clear to I think all observers right now. Fox, however, has a long track record of just reporting stuff with little regard to whether it can be verified, provided it fits their partisan agenda. See for example the alleged "murder" of a DNC staffer as an alternate theory for how the Clinton emails leaked, where finally the kid's family started publicly calling for Hannity to let the story drop so they could grieve in peace. Meanwhile, when outlets like the Times and the Post DO occasionally get something wrong - and they do heavy due diligence to prevent this from happening, see the Roy Moore accuser who turned out to be a Project Veritas employee trying to feed them a false story - they're quick to acknowledged their mistake and retract the story. Fox, not so much.

    But, the issue here isn't if "both sides are just as bad as each other," because of the occasional misstep. That's just the cover story. The real aim here is by painting the left wing media as not just partisan but dishonest, the hope is you can then start to cast doubt on stories where there IS evidence that something is amiss.

    Easy example - Trump continues to claim the Mueller investigation is a "witch-hunt" and there's zero evidence pointing towards collusion. Most Fox viewers (and commentators) agree. That doesn't square with the fact that we know when someone purporting to be a Russian agent reached out to Trump Jr. to offer them dirt, he enthusiastically agreed. We know for a fact as well that Papadoupalous knew about the Wikileaks emails and Russia's involvement before they became public knowledge, and that Sam Clovis encouraged him to meet with the Russian parties involved. We don't know the terms of an agreement, if any, that may have predicated the release of the emails... But that's not the same as saying there's no evidence pointing to collusion.

    tl;dr - both Trump and the right-wing media are working hard to discredit the left wing media as being just as debased as they are, so that when incriminating information about Trump becomes public, their (conservative) viewers will be primed to believe that the stories are false. That's a problem.
     
  16. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Isn't he that incel dude? I haven't been following the story closely, but my impression has always been that there are fairly strong ties between men's rights movements and white nationalist ones.
     
  17. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man

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    ^ You’re either being sarcastic, or you’ve proven my point entirely. No, he isn’t the incel dude or a men’s rights activist, though the headlines and aforementioned outlets have done an ok job of putting that out there.
     
  18. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    I know who he is. I first heard of him as a person of interest in the gender/pronoun debate. A few people got really boiling mad over some statements he made. I could see how he might be construed as a divisive figure because of that, although, personally, I have not observed him making statements that I thought were proportionate to the amount of hate he's received.
    What dishonest thing did the New York Times say about him?
     
  19. JoshuaVonFlash

    JoshuaVonFlash SSBRO.org regular

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    He's the lobster social hierarchy/"the ancients made art about the double helix" guy
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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  20. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Hey, I may be confusing him with someone else, the name sounds vaguely familiar, but that's about it.

    Either way, though, if you're right, he's only tangentially related to this thread. :lol:
     

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