Exact copies of guitars - OK, or uncool?

Discussion in 'Luthiery, Modifications & Customizations' started by Hollowway, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    Is it really easier to consistently rob banks or steal then it is to go to work everyday. I'm not sure it is. The threat of death on one path is much higher.

    On the BM i'm just saying that most people never even played one so like what are you even buying.

    BM is an interesting case as well. It's up to the prospective rights holder to uphold and protect the trademark. A bunch of people on the internet can't do that for him. I've never seen BM or Feline say a thing. If they continue at this rate and it's actually already happening...people are just going to wonder why the next generation of guitars look like ormsby's.
     
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  2. lewis

    lewis SS.org Regular

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    I have only replaced the headpiece to a chrome locking one. Someone advised a locking one would be better for stability with the zero fret so it was mainly done on a recommendation rather than a need. It is 100% better now though.

    In general Im 8/10 happy with it. It does not handle low tunings/thick strings very well (in terms of playing). But for a drop C or higher guitar etc, it is very decent. And thanks to the new headpiece, and some wizardry with that odd bridge, it holds its tune to an unreal degree.
    Got it out the case for the first time in like a month recently, and despite its overly thick, Drop G tuned strings atm, and the strings were all intune with each other still.

    So thats a huge plus. Also, creating your own tuning tool makes tuning so much easier over trying to just turn those fine tuners with the provided Z key.
     
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  3. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Which is why I've been making the distinction between legal and ethical arguments on this topic since the start of the discussion. In my opinion, if something is typically illegal, but there's a loophole or a statutory neglect by the law to enforce that in some cases, it doesn't make it ethically right.

    I don't know why, but I thought you had some problems with the pickups and the tailpiece as well. Glad to hear everything has been resolved.

    Why did you go so long without playing it, though? Just not your main guitar?

    I typically don't like standard scale lengths for anything lower than Bb or maybe A myself, so C sounds like a fair tuning for a guitar that small.
     
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  4. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    I understand. But the typically illegal is a bit fuzzy. You only get the protection and the rights under the law if you protect your shit in this instance. The law can't enforce it because there's nothing to enforce.
     
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  5. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    It's the same with any law, really. The law only protects people who know it, use it, and know how to use it. Here in the USA, there's a very big law about being protected from police torture. All of the time, people, especially young adults and teenagers, are getting locked into interrogation rooms without food or drink and unallowed to sleep for sometimes days, because they don't know that they have to inform the police that they know their rights, rather than just be protected. It's amazing how much abuse people face when they don't recite the laws that protect them.

    If Doug didn't bother to file for trademark protection, I wouldn't be surprised. I don't know UK law that well, but, under US law, if someone made a copy of his work and even signed it with a Blackmachine logo, but Blackmachine hadn't filed for any trademark protections, then the copy-maker would be free from legal issues.

    From an ethical standpoint, I've never heard anything about Doug mentioning his work being public domain, nor have I heard anything about him condoning these copies, so I assume these copy-makers are just making copies willy-nilly and don't give two shits whether there are laws against it or not. In general terms, making anything and putting another maker's mark on it without that maker's approval is dishonest, even if the original maker doesn't file for protections.
     
  6. lewis

    lewis SS.org Regular

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    yeah its just not the main guitar. Probably would be if I was not in a band, and just jammed at home myself.

    but writing and recording has really ramped up this year for my band as we want to gig soon. So my fan fret Drop G# guitar has been shown all the love.

    yeah the pickups on this other than buzzing alot, sound ok through the Kemper. Just SERIOUSLY twangy. Probably be too much for some people. (like thin etc)

    tail piece is ok really. Like I say winding the strings is easy and its got great stability but it just looks and feels a tad odd.

    I think If I ordered another, I would request it to have the locking headpiece as stock, no pickups (just routes) and probably no bridge or bridge holes drilled so I could buy a new bridge and fit it myself without worrying about filling/covering pre existing body holes.

    Also probably get the fretboard dots and side dots drilled but leave empty so I could fit Luminlay stuff myself too.

    Overall, you would get a MUCH better guitar at the end of it. Probably cost you way less too (and they are already super cheap as it is anyway).

    Infact, Im not against the idea of maybe selling it in the future and replacing it with another but the neck through options they are now offering and with the bits left off I mentioned.
     
  7. Phantom

    Phantom SS.org Regular

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    Fraud is lame.

    Wait... cussing is now a thing?... I seem to remember it had to be family friendly some years back.
    Not that I'm complaining, most of my time posting on here has always been spent censoring my own posts :D
     
  8. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Kinda veering off the topic but yeah, I've noticed that since one of the last forum updates there's been no filter on the swears. I typically self censor anyway, but it's been a thing for a while now.
     
  9. Lorcan Ward

    Lorcan Ward 7slinger Contributor

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    He's up and down about it. Obviously he's chuffed that guitars he started making in his shed for his friends are now a modern stable design to the point there are now thousands of inspired builds with lots of builders now in full time positions as a result. On the other hand all the shameless clones and builders even trying to claim they came up with the design put him off building for a few years. He's mostly stopped building now as a result.

    He had plans to try and protect his property, same way he had plans to expand like Strandberg which would have in turn protected his work but it never happened and others did it instead.
     
  10. Lorcan Ward

    Lorcan Ward 7slinger Contributor

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    I found this thread from 6 years ago when Skervesen made the B2 clone before the Raptor:
    http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/ngd-terrormachine-by-skervesen.200010/

    Took a few years but this poster predicted it!
    "Fear not. The market will probably be flooded with Chinese Blackmachine knockoffs before we know it...it's only a matter of time."

    Edit: UGH! Forgot thats how I ended up ordering a Raptor in the first place.
     
  11. J_Mac

    J_Mac SS.org Regular

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    ESP made a better Explorer than Gibson. Shame they did that lawsuit thing, I think both companies could have benefitted from it.

    On a different note, @Silence2-38554 did that Blackmachine build recently and I saw it as nothing other than a tribute. I think Doug would be flattered, especially since the build was epic. It’s a beautiful thing. I’ve only been building for 18 months, my first two were an RG copy and a tele style. Nearly everyone starts with a copy don’t they? My next one is an explorer, then I have a custom design for number 4. But then that even cribs elements from Claas, Abasi and Iceman.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018

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