ERG Fatigue

Discussion in 'Extended Range Guitars' started by PBC, Apr 24, 2018.

  1. auxioluck

    auxioluck Metal Teddy Bear

    Messages:
    2,481
    Likes Received:
    341
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Location:
    SoCal
    Wow, this hits home for me right now too. You pretty much described what I'm going through right now. I've played 7s for 15 years, 8s for almost 10 years, and I'm really considering going back to 6s. The "thrill" of ERGs just isn't there for me right now.
     
  2. chopeth

    chopeth SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,019
    Likes Received:
    506
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Location:
    Andalucía
    wow, I just got my first 8, completely opposite situation I'm in. Sell me all your guitars cheap and keep your granny's sixers!! (kidding)

    You say there are 9 and 10s? holy molly, I'm getting old, late to the party :lol:
     
    Hollowway likes this.
  3. Ebony

    Ebony Drums

    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    293
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2016
    Location:
    Norway
    To me, a string on a heavily distorted guitar tuned anywhere below A1 is more of a textural/percussive tool than something with discernible notes. It's like having a Wuhan china strapped onto your guitar. For some things, this can be great.
     
  4. Lemonbaby

    Lemonbaby SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    464
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    Hate to say it, but you obviously don't djent... :cond:
     
  5. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

    Messages:
    4,223
    Likes Received:
    1,199
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Im new to 8-strings, but this is how I’m feeling about it. That last string just isn’t for the heavies. It’s cool because there are now some new arpeggios that I can pull off, and thumping around on the last string adds exactly that texture and percussive thing you mention.

    But most of the time I don’t even use the low B string, let alone the low F#. But having the extra string or two doesn’t seem like an issue for when I don’t want them.

    But if you’re pushing past 27” scales or use huge strings to try get the F# tight enough for serious metal riffing, I can see how that could make the top 6 strings feel too uncomfortable to really use.
     
    Ebony likes this.
  6. laxu

    laxu SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,138
    Likes Received:
    196
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Location:
    Helsinki
    To me 7 string is the sweet spot. Not too many strings to confuse you and having the option of a lower string that integrates pretty well with the traditional 6-string set. I'm having more difficulty applying the 8th string on my Skervesen beyond just very heavy riffs.
     
    Albake21 likes this.
  7. stinkoman

    stinkoman SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    40
    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Location:
    Cincinnati
    OP you mention taking time away from ERG I agree that might help you. Do you strictly only have ERGs? You mention feeling like you need to use all the strings causing burn out, and sometimes I have the same issue. I find switching from 8 to 6 helps with that burn out need to use them since they aren't available ,plus physical the size difference, I have to approach it different and inspires me to play differently.

    I also found I enjoy them better using my 8 string in certain context.Like most people here that got an ERG I love metal. I found I had no use for one for heavy music once I bought one, but fell in love with the clean sound of ERG. I am big into surf music and use my 8 exclusively for that. I have also used the full range of an 8 jamming in a country setting even though I know hardly anything about country music. When I want to play heavy I find i'm much happier with just 6 and rarely ever need anything lower than drop D.
     
  8. trem licking

    trem licking SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    26
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
    Location:
    MI
    try just not playing the bottom couple extra strings. It will make you better at string muting and a better guitar player in general. I'd personally adjust my approach for awhile before I'd ditch any guitars. That being said, I love all ranges... I have 6,7,8 and 9 and as of right now, my 8 is my main player (mostly because it has a floyd... I pretty much have to have a floyd to be content)
     
    cardinal likes this.
  9. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

    Messages:
    4,223
    Likes Received:
    1,199
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    I also must have a Floyd!!! What 8 do you have with one? I’m maybe days away from biting the bullet to order a custom 8 with a Floyd. I really wish the Hellraiser 8FR wasn’t a 28” scale.
     
  10. Vyn

    Vyn Not a Sparkly Vampire Contributor

    Messages:
    1,074
    Likes Received:
    921
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2010
    Location:
    Australia
    On 8s I found myself avoiding anything on the 8th string below A. It was handy to have the additional notes in position 5 and above because it made some 7 string riffs easier but by that point I'd already managed to build up the technique for crazy jumps/stretches on the 7s. Most of the stuff I've been screwing around with in the last month has been on 6s in Drop D or Drop C. Little bit of 7's in Drop A. Can't remember the last time I touched an 8, was probably over three years ago.
     
  11. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

    Messages:
    3,424
    Likes Received:
    630
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Location:
    NoIL
    :agreed:

    I'm in a similar boat. My 9-string is going to go back to All M3rds:
    • Three full octaves in one four-fret position
    • Ability to do dense, piano-like chords
    • Still able to do spread chords in one position
    • Regular tuning - chords & scales are the same everywhere on the neck
    • etc.
    There's a bunch of threads on All-M3rd tuning here. Unfortunately, the new forum software doesn't have the tags that the old forum did.

    The question is do I do:
    A1b-C2-E2-A2b-C3-E3-A3b-C4-E4​
    or:
    C2-E2-A2b-C3-E3-A3b-C4-E4-A4b​
    Kalium says their 8s should hold the A4b on a 25-1/2", but I really don't like thin strings, so I are leaning towards the A1b 9th string.

    Just to be sure I'm in sync, you're talking A1 -- one octave below an E-Standard 5th string, i.e. same as a standard tuned bass' A-String, right? If so, yeah, we're in the same range.
     
  12. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

    Messages:
    15,027
    Likes Received:
    2,932
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Location:
    St. Johnsbury, VT USA
    Incidentally, the thickness of a plain steel string doesn't have a strong effect on how high you can tune. If you go up a gauge, it increases the tension on the string like the square of the thickness, but it also increases the tensile strength like the square of the thickness, so in determining the frequency at yield, the two thicknesses cancel out of the equation, such that the highest theoretical tuning is dependent on the type of metal of which the string is made and the scale length of the guitar.

    As for my lowest tuning on guitar, it is, indeed, A1. On bass, I'll go an octave lower (A0). I used to tune the bass even lower than that (G0), to encourage myself to come up with more interesting parts, but since then, I started tuning my guitar down a whole step lower and my bass a whole step higher.
     
    Winspear likes this.
  13. PBC

    PBC Composition Ontology

    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    78
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Wow, you guys are the bee's knees, I didn't expect this kind of response.

    Good advice @Winspear, you're absolutely right that the novelty with eventually wear off when more people start playing. I will still continue to play and increase my acceptance of "range when needed."

    I have also discovered that similar to you, there becomes a tipping point where things just seem to slide the other way. For me (in the context of non-djentish metal), the lowest is about G#1 standard. Again, the difference between G# and G seems large to me. After that, the next tipping point is from F1 to E1, somehow that semitone seems make a large difference. E1 seems to be my hard limit at the moment. The lowest I've ever tuned a guitar is Eb0 (for an experimental Eb open tuning consisting of Ebs and Bbs with Eb4 on top for a nine string), but I find that range (Eb0-Eb1) not that conducive to metal playing (unless I'm doing some ridiculous Mathcore/Danza ish stuff). Also, like you, I vastly prefer an uptuned 8 (7 + 1): Bb standard with high G#4 as well as the same tuning equivalent for A and G# standard.

    One other thing @bostjan, @Winspear, @KnightBrolaire and others , what's your experience with timbre for a given scale length? I find that my B standard on my 30 inch to sound much "higher" than on my 26.5 or 25.5 inch, where it's more chunky/meatier even though it's equivocally the same note.

    You string carpetbagger! Not trying to part with any at the moment, but I'll reach out if it ever becomes the case. Thanks for the advice from an ERG vet.

    That's a brilliant idea. Did you make a post about somewhere? I was able to find Winspears old http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/insanely-cool-reduced-range-tuning.243499/ . Is it similar to that?

    Hey, no I don't exclusive own ERGs. I also agree with you that I find that ERGs seem to operate much better clean than with super distortion, even though that's not the current marketing on them. Yeah, I'll go back to my 6 and to rebuild some fundamentals and hop back and forth.

    Is that the Schecter C-8 FR? Or did you hold out on us with a Caparison Apple Horn? I keep practicing muting, plus with an ERG you have both Palm Muting and Forearm Muting due to the bridge width.
     
    trem licking, Hollowway and bostjan like this.
  14. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

    Messages:
    15,027
    Likes Received:
    2,932
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Location:
    St. Johnsbury, VT USA
    Absolutely. The longer the vibrating string, the more efficiently the higher order harmonics can ring out, which gives a brighter tone. As notes get very low, scale length makes more of a difference.
     
    The906 likes this.
  15. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

    Messages:
    3,424
    Likes Received:
    630
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Location:
    NoIL
  16. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire baritone zone

    Messages:
    7,808
    Likes Received:
    4,815
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Yep, I find with my 27" scale baritones that b standard has a slightly darker timbre than my 28" or 30" baritones. Pickups, amps and the strings really influence that timbre though. My hellcat vi has mini humbuckers that are relatively dark sounding unless coil split and it delivers bass like chunk at that tuning or lower if I'm using the right profiles on my kemper or if I bump up the bass on my mkiv/f30. I find with my rig (which is relatively darker to start with) that I prefer the sound of my brighter thinner guitars, as they let the rig fill in the sound more.

    I did an experiment with the same riffs played on my 28" scale tele, 27" scale mushok and my 30" hellcat vi and ran through some of the split options on my tele/hellcat to show how those affect the timbre as well. The pickups in my 8 string are elysian goliaths, 6 string pickup is a dimarzio dominion and the hellcat VI has duncan minihumbuckers. The dominion is thicker sounding than the goliaths so that plays into the sound to an extent. My 8 string tele isn't set up for B standard so it's a bit floppier than it should be.
    All riffs are in the same tuning (B standard), using same settings/amps, etc.
    Here's the clips:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/qqxmr77lsb89hgx/8_6_VI 1 mk3DI.flac?dl=0
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjzyvkj4mno2ky2/8_6_VI 2 mk3DI.flac?dl=0
     
  17. trem licking

    trem licking SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    26
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
    Location:
    MI
    it is indeed a schecter c-8 fr. it is an amazing guitar, and the only legit affordable option with a floyd. i keep bugging other makers to please make a floyded 8, but no one listens ha.
     
  18. ixlramp

    ixlramp SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,082
    Likes Received:
    751
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Location:
    UK
    Yes, i have seen that Garry Goodman of Octave 4 Plus is experimenting with guitar A4 strings of .009 and .010, lots of tension.
    I did, the images are no longer hosted but http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/...one-scales-microtonal-beginners-guide.161530/
    The full .pdf (recommended over the thread version) is downoadable here http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/...al-beginners-guide.161530/page-2#post-3115763
    There is also a post in that thread about the Just Intonation possibilities but it has lost it's images, will sort that out.
     
  19. ixlramp

    ixlramp SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,082
    Likes Received:
    751
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Location:
    UK
    Another way to do microtones on a normal ERG is to string up with pairs of identical strings, like 5 pairs on a 10 string, then tune up 1 of each pair by a quartertone, so every normal note has a quarter-sharp version next to it. This was the first system i tried, but i tuned the pairs in fifths not fourths for more range.
     
    Winspear and ElRay like this.
  20. cesar

    cesar SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Location:
    são paulo
    Well, though I don't have an ERG i never liked the idea of just putting lower strings, why not go all out and experiment new things? Relearn the instrument by changing the rules.
    I want to tune into an open chord, probably A minor to have a much simpler scale and chords patterns and more versatility in composing, the only one who I know that uses something like that is Devin Townsend.
    Though I think I would need 30" on the lower end to accomplish sounds similar to a short bass but it seems credible in my mind.

    Lately I see only heavily distorted guitars and chugging and that really bothers me.
     

Share This Page