Dream Theater

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by p0ke, May 23, 2018.

  1. Sermo Lupi

    Sermo Lupi SS.org Regular

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    Haha, yep. He flubs some parts of the other songs, too, and later mentions how he hasn't played them in a while so it is hard to remember how they go. That's crazy for two reasons, really, the first one of them being that the album was written and recorded in only a week (as JP mentions in the video), leaving him very little opportunity to get them down. The second reason is that the songs were still new when this was recorded.

    Just looking at a few dates, Dream Theater released Once in a LIVEtime June 25th of that year, which had a massive setlist, and DT was still actively on tour a few months later on August 30th when Petrucci did that clinic at MI (notice how, at the end, he says he has to leave for soundcheck). So I'm not sure how many shows LTE played that year (if any at all), but Petrucci would have been in "Dream Theater mode" for months by that point. They'd only released LTE 1 March 10th of that year, so, adding this all together, those songs at this point were basically a bunch of off-the-cuff ideas JP wrote and recorded in a week, a couple of months ago before this big Dream Theater tour.

    Meanwhile, he's probably thinking about Metropolis Pt. 2, which the band would start recording next year in 1999. They'd already recorded a 21-minute demo with the intention of releasing it on Falling Into Infinity, but it never made the cut. All in all, it's a pretty quintessential point in Petrucci's career, if you think about it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  2. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Wow, that video was kind of a wreck. He messed up a little bit in the intro as well, and there were several notes in the fast parts throughout that were replaced with "*plink*" sounds. I would have said it's still better than I could play it, but the part you mentioned (4:21-4:39), he seemed like he just totally got lost. :eek:

    Never knew Paradigm Shift intro was inspired by a Van Halen song, though. :yesway:
     
  3. groverj3

    groverj3 Biologist/Guitarist

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    I know that lots of people point to this era as his best, but I actually think that the Train of Thought era was his pinnacle. Maybe I just watched Live at Budokan at an impressionable age. Not their best songwriting, but JP is just locked in and pretty much perfect at that show.
     
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  4. scrub

    scrub SS.org Regular

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    Hard to get more locked in then the ending of 'this dying soul' and the solo in 'stream of consciousness'
     
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  5. Zalbu

    Zalbu More time than skill

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    A song like Dyers Eve would probably sound kickass in D standard but I doubt Lars could play that nowadays without his legs falling off:lol:
     
  6. Sermo Lupi

    Sermo Lupi SS.org Regular

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    Definitely watched Live at the Budokan more times than I can count, and it's a great performance. Even today, Petrucci's accuracy is top-notch if you ask me. It's just more about how creative his playing was back then, and how limber he looks in the live videos from that era. 2003 isn't that far away from then, anyway.

    I am pretty open-minded when it comes to DT in general, though. I don't really 'hate' any of the albums or any of the members, as some fans do. And I definitely don't want to endorse the idea that Petrucci was only great from 1992 until ~2000, then rubbish from 2007+.
     
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  7. groverj3

    groverj3 Biologist/Guitarist

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    For sure, a lot of that seems pretty silly to me too.

    As I said earlier, the first DT album I really got into was Systematic Chaos after an unsuccessful attempt at Octavarium a year or two before that. So, in my mind 07-today Petrucci is still a high water mark for accuracy and technique. I got into their older stuff after that. To me it seems like a natural progression of his playing. That doesn't mean everyone has to like everything, but those that act like something magically changed after the 90s confuse me.

    I do miss the Portnoy era though, because he contributed to songwriting. Right now it seems like the JP and Rudess show. However, some of Portnoy's ideas weren't always the best either. I'd be interested to see more updates from the writing, because it seems like this time around they're writing with everyone present which I don't think they've done since Systematic Chaos (at least that's the last time I think LaBrie was around for the writing, which is a rarity even before that).
     
  8. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    Oh my goodness! You're 100% right!
     
  9. Sermo Lupi

    Sermo Lupi SS.org Regular

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    Yeah. In a lot of ways, he contributed more to the identity and direction of the band than any other member, and it was in that capacity that he could be called 'bandleader'--musically, it isn't as clear cut.

    Still, the role that Portnoy played in co-producing all those albums often drew from whatever music was inspiring him at the time. He took a lot of the blame when Dream Theater started going in a more 'metal' direction, presumably because it seemed to be where his tastes were going at the time (something that was easy to gauge due to Portnoy being a musical encyclopedia and posting his long-form thoughts about such things on his website), yet DT has remained largely on that same trajectory since Portnoy split.

    Whether Portnoy ever returns to the band or not, I'd like to see DT move away from all the fantasy stuff and go back to their old conceptual focus. No qualms whatsoever with ambitious concept albums--Six Degrees and Scenes from a Memory are great--it just seemed to me that the older stuff was more in DT's wheelhouse.
     
  10. groverj3

    groverj3 Biologist/Guitarist

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    Some posters on the DT forums found out exactly where they are holding writing sessions right now:

    http://www.yonderbarn.com/
     
  11. groverj3

    groverj3 Biologist/Guitarist

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    John Myung sighting :lol:

    [​IMG]
    Those people over there are insane and borderline stalkerish.

    I guess I'm no better for reposting their stuff.
     
  12. beneharris

    beneharris SS.org Regular

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    The last few albums have been underwhelming, especially the Astonishing, but having grown up on these guys and loving every minute of it, I still fan girl out every time they're recording new stuff.
     
  13. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Has anyone else listened to the Demo version of Falling into Infinity? I don't hate FiI but it's not my favourite, either, but revisiting the demos, I've concluded that I like the demo versions of the songs better. The production is quite good for a demo, and the songs sound more like Dream Theater. According to the liner notes, many of the band members were at personal low points, with Mike losing his grandmother and both of his parents-in-law, Petrucci losing his dad, Myung losing family as well, and LaBrie losing his voice, Kevin leaving the band, their record label being dissolved and them being unable to play any tour dates as a result of that once they were finally ready to come back. So, it sounds like the label/management wanted to get involved in the writing process by rewriting some of the band's songs for them, and the result was only negative, in my opinion.

    You can listen and read the liner notes in this video:
     
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  14. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    I've only ever heard the demo of "You Not Me," which I actually liked LESS than the one with the studio-mandated Bon Jovi chorus. I'll have to listen to the rest of it when I'm off work.
     
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  15. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    I think that's my least favourite track off of the demo, but I actually disliked the demo version less. I do think that's one of the three songs that had the most stuff changed.
     
  16. Randy

    Randy ROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOU Super Moderator

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    I don't think I've listened to a single track from The Astonishing, but my potentially "unpopular belief" about the recent Dream Theater catalog is that the albums and song writing overall have been boring but the riffs are potentially better than a lot of the older stuff. "Systematic Chaos" was the first album I started to hear a nearly universal "wow, this band sucks now" sentiment from fans but I thought that album was Riff City. :2c:

    Not to turn this thread into a complaint soap box and not to be hipstery about it, but yeah... the WAY Labrie's vocals are used the last several years and the songwriting overall has been so boring. Getting into Dream Theater for Petrucci, not loving Labrie's vocals, being annoyed with Portnoy, thinking Ruddess overplays everything (and especially lots of really cheesy lines) and thinking Myung didn't contribute much, I always ASSUMED the band was best off with Petrucci writing everything but all indications are that that's been the case for the last decade and the results have kinda sucked.

    It wasn't until later on and when they were involved with other projects that I appreciated Dominici, Moore, Sherinian, and even Labrie and Portnoy. Actually, almost any one of the albums released by any of those guys has been a more complete work and listenable album than anything by Dream Theater in the last decade. I slowly started to realize the band only worked when the songwriting worked as a community and not just Petrucci and Rudess. :2c:
     
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  17. beneharris

    beneharris SS.org Regular

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    I really liked Systematic Chaos, I thought it was great. BCAS, too. Everything after that I felt was good, but not what they're able to do. I love all the 10 minute sections of wank with Ruddess, that is one of my favorite parts of the band. I just keep hoping that they go back to pre-SOC levels of greatness.
     
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  18. Soya

    Soya Poor person Contributor

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    After that post you should change your name to Randy SAVAGE.
     
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  19. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    I listened to some more of those demos. Over 2 hours?! AINT NO ONE GOT TIME FOR THAT!!

    Take Away My Pain sounds kind of like the one on the live album. I actually really like the album version, even though I know the band HATES it, and I find this one less interesting. It's kind of the same thing minus the odd bass (stick?) playing, and minus the odd layered leads. I still like it, though. I think that might even be my favorite song on the album. I think I'm in an extreme minority there! I remember some of these other songs (Raise the Knife, The Way it Used to Be) from the old Napster days. I think leaving them off the album was a good idea. :p

    I think I like this version of Anna Lee more than the album version. I like the more accentuated classic rock keyboards more than the "heartrending" piano on the album version. It gives it quite a different feel and it feels a lot less sappy. It's a good song!

    I'm not big on this version of Hollow Years. That's another one I quite like, despite the cheese factor. I like the live album version and the album version about equally.

    EDIT: Wow, I haven't listened to Speak to Me since the Napster days, when I'd never heard The Cure. They should have just done a cover of Lovesong and been done with it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  20. Avedas

    Avedas SS.org Regular

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    I really liked Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds, but they're definitely inconsistent. Prophets of War and The Shattered Fortress are unlistenable messes.
     

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