Double tracking kicks?

Discussion in 'Recording Studio' started by 7 Strings of Hate, May 2, 2009.

  1. 7 Strings of Hate

    7 Strings of Hate Mid-Level Asshole Contributor

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    Has anyone tried to double track their kicks? I feel like the snare and kick drum kinda sound thin in SD2, and was wondering if anyone has tryed to add some beef by bouncing a 2nd kick drum track of the exact content, just eq'ed maybe a bit fuller and without highs.
     
  2. MTech

    MTech Banned

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    some people will use a track for highs and another for just the lows..so sort of what you're wondering/explaining at the end there.
     
  3. damigu

    damigu stay tuned

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    why not just save the kick and snare as separate tracks and EQ them independently?

    in a real studio tracking real drums, you'd have separate mics for each kick/snare/tom running to a separate channel with its own EQ capability (bleed notwithstanding).
     
  4. IconW

    IconW SS.org Regular

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    Well this come to my mind.
    Parallel compression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And I use two different samples or "samplesets" for my drums. Like two different kick samples. That's really not what you meant but I advice you to try different samples for kicks. SD2.0 kicks work, but aren't too good.
     
  5. 7 Strings of Hate

    7 Strings of Hate Mid-Level Asshole Contributor

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    i still dont understand how to use different drum samples.



    i have them all set to independent channels, i just know nothing about drums really, how to eq them or anything like that. i'v been reading up on it, but i cant really get it to sound good. there are parts i like about different kicks, i just figured i would add the snappy one with a boomyer one.

    i'd love to try samples, and i even have the andy sneap ones, but i cant find anywhere that explains how to use new drum samples


    is there a site that tells you how to use the drum samples in cubase?
     
  6. IconW

    IconW SS.org Regular

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    I don't know either. I just disable the kick drum from the Superior Drummer 2's mixer window and add some kick to follow with the rest of the kit (pianoroll or somthng).
    And well...it depends what program you use, but it isn't so big of a deal.

    And yep, it would be nice if somebody would enlighten us how to replace samples in drumsamplers. I guess it got something to do with program drumagog (example)...wut to do?
     
  7. Metalman X

    Metalman X The Resplendent Sub-Human

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    Thisi spretty much the best bet.

    One of the reasons I switched to Addictive Drums. You can do all this right in the program itself. And it's more effective too....or at least quicker
     
  8. synrgy

    synrgy Ya ya ya I am Lorde

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    By the time I'm at the mixdown stage, I personally like to have a stereo track of the full drum kit, and then individual mono tracks for an additional 'supportive' kick and snare respectively.

    So that's 3 tracks total for my drums:

    1 full kit -- stereo
    1 'supportive' kick layer -- mono
    1 'supportive' snare layer -- mono

    Granted, everybody has their own methods and you can basically use a million different ways to get one single sound, so there really is no right or wrong way.

    There's definitely nothing wrong with layering kicks, as you were asking. What's VERY common is that you'll find kicks that have character in the top or low, but very rarely both. So, you find a great example of each, do some subtractive EQ to get rid of the frequencies you aren't using in each (take the highs out of the one you're using for the low oomph, take the lows out of the one you're using for the top end attack) and then combine the two.

    Just be careful -- You don't want your kick drum to be competing with the bass if you can help it. Look up 'sidechain ducking' for info on a great technique to help you combat that common problem. :yesway:

    *edit* for the record, it's been a solid year or more since any of my various works in progress have actually made it to the mixdown stage. ;)
     
  9. Leec

    Leec Woopah! Contributor

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    It sounds like you want to use Drumagog to replace the kick in S2.0. It's pretty simple to do.
    You could always load up another instance of S2.0 and only load one of the kicks in to the second instance, then you could EQ that second kick as you like.

    But to be honest, is the kick really lacking in S2.0? I've heard ridiculously good results with it, and I am more than happy with the results I get as far as beef is concerned. If anything, it lacks a little click to it.
     
  10. 7 Strings of Hate

    7 Strings of Hate Mid-Level Asshole Contributor

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    are you saying bring a 2nd bass drum in the x-drum slot?


    basically because i dont know much about how to eq drums. i'v read up on it and followed a few different charts that tell you what hz level effects what but i just cant seem to get a result i'm happy with. its either too present or to distant in the mix, so i figured i would ask and see if some people do it. i'm sure there are alot of little tricks like that, that you dont hear about.
     
  11. damigu

    damigu stay tuned

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    i'm not a fan of ducking or NY compression (as someone else suggested) for guitar oriented music (i think the sound it gives is better for hip-hop and electronic music).

    but then, i also tend to make slightly quieter mixes because i prefer quality over volume (i figure everyone has a volume knob on their speakers and can turn it up louder if they want, but people don't have a "quality" knob to undo the damage of overly compressed/limited sound).

    if you have a slightly quieter mix, you'll have enough headroom and won't need special tactics (like ducking) for the kick and bass to both have plenty of power.
     
  12. drawnQ

    drawnQ SS.org Regular

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    if you are talking straight up EQ for a bass drum you could follow these depending on the drum-

    the bass drum fundamental is low around 30 - 40 hz. so i wouldn't recommend a low cut.

    the 160 - 180 hz range contains the boominess of the bass drum

    adding some high frequencies (maybe 5khz) will add some of the slap or crack of the beater against the head

    i'm not specifically sure where the umph of the drum would be at (possibly 250 - 350hz??)

    so keep these in mind and what boosting or cutting these frequencies will do to your sound.

    try this- get a sample you like. get it to loop and play on every downbeat. get a graphic eq plug-in on your computer and play with the gain on the bands. find what you like and there you go.
     
  13. Mattayus

    Mattayus Sir Groove-A-Lot Contributor

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    Hey man just a few simple EQ tips for the fundamentals of metal kicks -
    DrawnQ pretty much covered it. if you're after a clicky metal kick then you need to scoop the 250hz (and 150-500 accordingly). This is the "boxiness" of the kick, and takes away some of the acoustic qualities of it (sounds like a bad thing but, it's good for metal) i.e. you won't hear the skin flapping or the resonance of the drum. Then with a fairly narrow Q, take up the 6k, which gives you your click.

    If you wanted to splice two kicks together, i'd recommend you low pass one, and high pass the other, at matching frequencies so they form one kick. For example, low pass one at say 150hz, and high pass the second one at 150 also, so you get the bottom end of one and the top end of the other. Otherwise it will just sound odd, and too big. Overlapping instruments like that generally just makes them louder, or if they're too drastically different it simply won't sound good.
     

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