Difficult bends and legato on Baritones - true or not?

Discussion in 'Extended Range Guitars' started by Cyborg_Ogre, Jul 6, 2018.

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  1. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

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    Calm down. Schecter made 26.5” 8-strings in the past, and I think the Omen 8 still is 26.5”.
     
  2. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    you calm down.

    also how don't understand how what you said changes anything I said?
    notice how I specifically asked him if he meant 6 strings?
     
  3. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

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    Not looking for a internet tough guy fight. You’re just cursing at a guy for asking a scale length question.

    But you’re right, I assumed we were talking about 8-strings given the forum but there are a lot of 6-string guys here too.
     
  4. Jonathan20022

    Jonathan20022 Engineer

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    Larger scale length w/same tuning & string gauge = higher tension.

    I had a Kiesel DC7X in the past and being that I just tune to B Standard bending close to a whole step and higher felt uncomfortable. So I had to decrease the string gauge to compensate, the only thing you can't compensate for is the extra stretch by the neck literally being longer.

    I don't see how anyone can't reach this same conclusion from simply looking at it objectively.

    There is no difference in tone to me, I've had several baritones/26.5/25.5/24.75 guitars and the only real difference I can find is in the overall feel and stretches I have to make.

    My main 7 string right now has a 26.5" scale and I'm growing more and more used to the stretches on it, so when I go back to my 25.5" guitars it feels far more effortless to play on.
     
  5. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    Bruh I’m kidding. I’m angry that people think a 26.5 is a baritone. But there are still a number of 26.5 guitars you can buy if that’s your thing.
     
  6. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire gearwhoricus americanus

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    really? 26.5 is the hill you want to die on? not 25.5 " baritones"? :D
     
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  7. Vyn

    Vyn Not a Sparkly Vampire Contributor

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    There's far more people out there that thing anything longer than 24.75" is baritone range haha.
     
  8. Dayn

    Dayn silly person

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    All I can think of are the RGD series of Ibanez. They're 26.5".

    I think this is guitar-dependent more than anything and the contact points for your string. I use a .009 for a high E on 27". Never snapped a single string on my guitar in the 8-9~ years I've had it - in normal tunings. I have used an .008 for G which was solid - not very bendy, but no danger of snapping - and even had a .007 for A for a short while (two hours, but that was because I was a bloody idiot and accidentally tuned it up when I went to tune it down).

    But that's on an RG2228: no ball end, smooth curved saddle, over a smooth flat nut, and into the pegs. Only the tuning peg is the point of weakness. On an old guitar I used to have with a tune-o-matic bridge? At 25.5", the high E would occasionally snap.
     
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  9. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    by my research most people give that tremonti baritone a confused look.
     
  10. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

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    This is on guitars with a Hipshot bridge; strings are failing right at the saddle or at the ball end.

    I’ve had a DCM100 with the LoPro 7 and 26.5” and had zero problems, so maybe it is just the bridge. I actually have two 26.5” guitars incoming, both with Floyds, so that would be great if the locking saddle fixes the problem.
     
  11. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear

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    Yeah something is wrong. Anything up to around G# should be perfectly safe on 25.5, that translates to G on 27", which means you can tune to E perfectly safe and do a three semitone bend without worrying. It's just like tuning to F on 25.5", no problem. Something is sharp somewhere!
     
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  12. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

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    Huh. This happens with normal D’Addario strings on three guitars: ESP B8 (the custom shop one), Schecter PT8 (custom shop build), and a Michael Kelly CC53-8 (Korean build).

    I’ve just tried switching to the fancier NYXL strings to see if they hold up better.
     
  13. GuitarBizarre

    GuitarBizarre Listen to physics.

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    I'm struggling to figure out why you want to be a dick about this one.

    Much less to PRS. You're aware Ibanez was making 27" scale Baritones many years before PRS was, right?

    http://ibanez.wikia.com/wiki/RG970XL
    http://ibanez.wikia.com/wiki/RG7421XL
    http://ibanez.wikia.com/wiki/RG470XL
     
  14. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

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    diagrammatiks and others, I think, define a true baritone as a guitar tuned lower than Standard with something like 28” or 28 5/8” scale or longer.

    A 28 5/8” scale is two frets longer than 25.5” scale. You wouldn’t normally tune that to Standard. If you tune a 28 5/8” guitar to D, it’ll feel the same as a 25.5” guitar in Standard, just with two extra low frets.

    I think 28” is about two frets longer than the 24.75” scale.

    27” and 26.5” are about one fret longer than 25.5” and 24.75”, respectively.

    So it’s just a terminology thing. If you tune a guitar to Standard, it wouldn’t be a baritone. Since many people, myself included, tune 26.5” and 27” guitars to Standard, they sometimes are not considered baritones.
     
  15. GuitarBizarre

    GuitarBizarre Listen to physics.

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    Oh I'm aware of what they're getting at, I own one such guitar - my Steinberger is 28.625".

    I just think being so rigid about it is silly.
     
  16. BillCosby

    BillCosby SS.org Regular

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    The only legitimate issue I've ever had regarding baritone scale vs. regular scale is that I am so used to where the harmonics are on my 27" RG7421xl that it really fucks me up when I play any other scale length.

    It takes me a few days to adjust and find the right places to hit the pinch harmonics.

    Everything else is subjective; bending, legate, etc... that depends on your play style and your strings more than the scale length.
     
  17. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Standard E9 tuning for a pedal steel guitar has the highest string at G# at usually between 24.5-25" scale, then the string is bent up to A routinely by pressing the "B pedal" (the most commonly used pedal). I've been tuning my 24" 8 string to high A for over ten years, and before that I used a 25.5" seven string with a high A string. I also have a 29 3/4" baritone that I kept in a weird tuning with the highest string at F, a semitone higher than standard. If you can't tune to E at 27", then something is most certainly wrong with your guitar. Either I'm charmed by good luck breaking strings, and so is every single one of the fifteen thousand steel players in Nashville, or you've got a burr or something.
     
  18. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    I mean, ignoring the difference between "extended scale" and "baritone" and all the accompanying debate...

    1) I haven't had any trouble with legato at higher string tensions, but at the same string gauge and tuning, yeah, there's more tension to bend against. Is this a problem? Eh, plenty of guys use 10s (myself included) and 11s in standard tuning, which are also harder to bend than 9s, but it's just a matter of getting used to it, and of taste.

    2) I don't know if "glassy" is the word, exactly... But yeah, treble notes up the neck sound a bit "harder" on longer scales than on shorter ones. I mean, this is even one of the tonal differences between a Les Paul and a Strat, where the fundamental is a bit clearer on the Strat and the note a little less "sweet" for it. And, well, plenty of guys play leads on Strats rather than LPs. This one's personal taste, and is also impacted by a slew of other factors like body and neck wood and amp settings and whatnot. Subjectively, I feel like this is a bigger difference for clean tones than distorted ones, where there's a ton of other overtones in play as well.

    3) Mixed bag here. In the lower frets, absolutely... On a 27" neck, patterns that are comfortable on a 25.5" definitely take a bit more work. On the flip side, patterns on a 25.5" in the upper registers that feel scrunched are more comfortable on a 27" where that extra space between frets works to your favor.

    If you do a lot of shreddy licks and bends in, say, the 3rd-to-9th-fret range of the neck, then the longer scale is going to take some getting used to. If you do a lot of clean-toned shreddier licks higher up in the neck, then tonally you may not love the longer scale (though, you may, depending on the sound you're after). If you do a lot of shreddier stuff in the 17-24th fret range, you might even prefer a longer scale.

    For the stuff I personally play so far I've been happiest on 25.5", but I don't really go below low-B, and most of my soloing is probably between the 4th fret and the 17th.
     

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