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Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by HeavyMetal4Ever, Sep 10, 2017.
Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up.
they gang raped her in a bathroom and she had bruises consistent with being restrained.
i hope they throw the book at those little emo wannabe metal nubs.
I'm trying not to jump to conclusions, but all of what we know points to these being legitimate charges.
The thing that speaks to me the most is the timing of the report, more or less right after the alleged crime. The girl was probably intoxicated, yet she reported promptly--no time or frame of mind for scheming or getting one's story straight (and let's be honest--a Polish death metal band is not a lucrative target for this kind of thing in the first place). The fact that she was uncomfortable and wanted to leave, yet thought she could safely use the restroom, tells me all I need to know about her mental acuity and vulnerability at the time.
Still hope these Poles know the American justice system is a game, and it ain't a team sport. I don't care if they're a band of brothers--when one legal team represents all of them, there's a conflict of interest if one member has the opportunity to get off light at the expense of others. A good lawyer will make sure the least guilty among them doesn't do something 'noble' that he will regret for the rest of his life.
There is a lot of f!cking stupid people in America let me tell you that. And I'm sure there's already a bunch of people that believe my statement without a doubt
I was just telling my mom last week how some of the nicest people in the world are in Death Metal bands, like Mikael Stanne and Alex Webster. Wonder if this story has reached her yet...
Way to go, you jinxed us.
From Decapitated's facebook;
"While we are not perfect human beings, we are not kidnappers, rapists, or criminals. As such, we strongly deny the allegations that have recently been brought against us.
We ask that everyone please reserve their judgement until a definitive outcome has been reached, as charges have yet to be pressed. Full testimony and evidence will be presented in due time, and we have faith in that process.
As there is uncertainty regarding a timeline for prospective proceedings and out of respect for fans and promoters, due to the severity of the claims, we have cancelled all planned touring.
All social media platforms have been temporarily disabled as they have been used as destinations for defamatory and malicious remarks. We would like to point out that the statements in the published police report were given prior to an arrest. At that point, no member of the band was aware of an active warrant being issued."
I also cannot believe that they would a) be the kind of people capable of gang raping someone, and b) be stupid enough to do something as awful as what they're accused of.
I hope I am right
Fair statement, but unsurprisingly some gross comments. Weird how hypocritical people can be.
This is quite the story I must say. A few things don't add up from both sides but it makes sense as there's not a lot of information about the case.
From the Decapitated side it seems that the band members statements that have come out are contradictory and some of them a bit creepy. It's not the full statements though and there is a language barrier.
From the other side I don't understand why the friend that got out of the bus relatively untouched didn't immediately call the police as she was aware what was happening to her friend. Maybe she did and I missed something.
Anyway we'll see how things evolve.
Calling police right away would be the right thing to do, but I can see why she might have been afraid or felt it wasn't her best choice at the time. It's impossible to say what a person would do in such a situation.
I have a lot of questions about this myself, but it's not really my place to speculate. It'll probably be a few weeks before there's really enough information out there to piece it together any more clearly.
Even if a witness comes forward and says "yeah, man, they didn't do it," I'd say it's still raise the question of who this witness is and why the witness would say that. Calling for unnamed witnesses to come forward could be a legitimate plea for help from concertgoers or, conceivably, it could be an appeal to strangers for someone to make something up. I don't know either way. With the way this has gone so far, someone in the band is going to have to change his story, maybe all of them will. With one attorney for the entire band (is that even going to be allowed?!), I think there may be a 99% chance that the band's career is over forever. Even if Vogg somehow misspoke or was misquoted, and the lawyers try to explain it all away somehow, I don't see too many venues hiring the band to appear on their bill. If they stick with their current statements and then, say, Rasta pleads guilty or something, then I wouldn't even imagine how their lawyer would try to salvage any part of the case.
I guess if, and this is a way-out-there hypothetical, but if the tour manager or someone else fairly official-like comes forward and says that the girl both arrived and departed from the bus happily, then the single lawyer approach might end up helping them legally.
This story just keeps getting more and more confusing with time rather than it being cleared up. No one of us can make any kind of call, aside opinions, given the tidbits of information that are available to the general public.
EDIT: Something that just popped into my head that I'm sure has been brought up before. The band had been touring for a couple weeks here in the US before this incident (and I'm sure banging groupies and getting wasted in the other cities). My question is why this specific city, and none of the cities after the incident supposedly took place were there reports placed? Could be they really did get rapey, or someone just regretted something they did?
Which are the gross comments? In this thread?
I must've missed this. What'd he say that was possibly misspeaking?
I think she meant the facebook statement comment-section.
Yup, on facebook. A lot of "innocent until proven guilty. I believe you guys, shes just a whore looking for her 15 minutes."
As for them touring for weeks and having no issues, it doesn't say a whole hell of a lot one way or the other.
As for what Vogg said, it's in the readily made information. I could be remembering incorrectly, but he outright contradicted someone. Something along the lines of he saw two of them, one of which was Wiecek having sex with her. Wiecek said he was on the couch and didn't see what happened which is clearly contrary to performing sex acts with her.
But, again, who knows? The language barrier might play a role here.
Edit: ripped from the story:
What's wrong with this aspect of what they are saying? This is how the justice system works...
It's the second bit I think that they had an issue with, but if they have an issue with that as well, then... yeah.
This. And this is what goes to my mind pretty much every time. I thought about this rather a lot after reading the news & this thread and... maybe, just maybe, some of this "maybe she is just telling lies" comes from ones lack of understanding how something like rape can still happen. I can understand a lot of crimes. Fraud, theft, I can easily understand why you would shoot somebody in the face. Or run somebody over with your car, back up, and then set all on fire. I can't understand rape. It's about as absurd as kidnapping a plane and crashing it into a skyscraper. That was another of those "nah, that can't be, no one can be THAT insane" moments. And I know at least case where a woman (in that case his girlfriend) threatend a friend of mine to do exactly that, accuse him of rape, if he ever left her (or, several times, to kill herself if he did that). Mental health, or lack thereof, is hardly ever visible from the outside. The more disturbing thing is that at some times it felt like half the women I knew, judging by those that I knew well enough, had been victim to rape, or attempted rape, or close enough to it it hardly makes a difference. No one ever got locked up because of that. Not a single person. And according to official statistics, even of the cases that get reported, the accused are convicted in 8.4% of the cases. So... fake accusations are a possibility, always, and one I'd love to believe in, because it's easier. Then you could say "see, they're just normal people like you and me, they wouldn't do something". Else one might realise if people like you and me could do that, maybe you and me, maybe with a bit of drugs and power... it's easier to think it's just made up. Though rather unlikely. Either way, it's disturbing people would do that. And almost as disturbing how people react to it on social media.