Decapitated accused of kidnapping?

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by HeavyMetal4Ever, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. Zalbu

    Zalbu More time than skill

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    But have no fear, because the sentient fedoras who are ready to stand up to the evil feminazis who oppress the poor men are here to save the day!

    And Varg fucked himself by murdering Euronymous, what justification did he have to kill Euronymous? The Norwegian court stated themselves that Euronymous had plans to kill him so Varg could've just injured him, left him there and contacted the police but he says in his Youtube videos that he murdered him as a form of preventive self-defense so Euronymous wouldn't attack him again. He barely even consider himself as a murderer.

    Back on topic, in what fantasy land do you people live in where women apparently lie about getting raped all the time? Exactly what would they gain from it when they have a hard enough time being believed in the first place when they get raped?

    Decapitated are innocent until proven guilty but saying stuff like "lying about getting raped is as bad as getting raped" is headassery of the first degree. The alleged victim always deserves the benefit of the doubt over the alleged perpetrators because the amount of rape allegations that turns out to be fake is so small that it's barely of statistical significance, especially not when you factor in the amount of rapes that doesn't even get reported in the first place as well as the ones that actually lead to the rapist getting convicted. The numbers I've seen puts the amount of false rape allegations at around 2-8%.
     
  2. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    I feel like we've danced around the idea that the power to intentionally ruin someone with a claim like that is a thing. I'm not suggesting that's what happened- I'm firmly in the "don't assume either party is guilty or innocent" camp- but I don't think it's fair to say there's zero to gain from false accusations. If someone had a beef with the band and wanted to ruin their careers, this would be a way to do it. And it would work. The band could very well be ruined at this point. You also can't rule out motivations that don't "make sense to you", since you're not the one in question. The motivations don't have to make sense to you. They don't have to make sense at all. It could be anything from wanting attention, to wanting to ruin the band, to some sort of awkward almost-consent-but-changed-their-mind-last-minute situation, and it's equally possible that the band is made up of sh*tty human beings who really did assault someone. Maybe they'd be likely to do it again. Maybe they do it all the time and we never hear about. We don't gain anything by trying to guess at everyone's motivations, or guess what actually happened. We're not in any position to "solve the mystery" from our computers.
     
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  3. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    Also, we've kinda danced around the idea that sometimes there are rapes that aren't mutually understood to be rape by both parties involved. If this wasted girl started getting busy with two wasted Polish dudes who may or may not be any good at understanding English, I could imagine a situation where she feels raped but the men don't even realize it.
     
  4. Ebony

    Ebony Mr Sunshine

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    It is just as bad when taken to its conclusion for most of the victims. Denying that as a fact is the only actual headassery and proves you have no idea of what you're talking about.

    No-one is denying that the crime of rape is much more abundant than the crime of fake allegations.
     
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  5. Sogradde

    Sogradde SS.org Regular

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    Breh, you may wanna have a look at this link.
    This is a similar scenario to the "1 in 4 college girls gets raped on campus!" fearmongering present in the states, which is thrown around alot but was actually made up decades ago and parroted without looking into it.

    The uncomfortable truth is: we don't know the actual number but data suggests it's quite a bit higher.

    And before someone asks again why women would make that up; people are dicks, men and women alike. That's why.
     
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  6. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    And how is that determined? I'm calling shenanigans on the grounds that that statistic cannot even be measured as stated, and studies that have claimed to have done so have always been met with tons of conttroversy. There are allegations that lead to convictions, which is astonishingly only around 2% (https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system). But to say that such is evidence that 98% of allegations are false is stupid.

    Here's a study from the 1990's, which was the most recent I could readily find (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...OO.PDF&usg=AFQjCNFk6PSOl4-BX2ZHXvJLlx_bNcIGHg). Out of 260300 charges pressed, 34650 arrests were made, which led to 21655 convictions. That's 8% of allegations turning into convictions, or 62% of arrests turning into convictions. Now, I don't think that says anything about false allegations per se, but it certainly does not jive at all with the source-free statistics you posted.

    First off, statistics on somethings as simple as how many rape convictions occured in the USA in, say, 2015, are not even that easy to trace. How many charges were pressed is even more difficult to measure. So now, we are going to go out on the limb of determining how many claims were false, independent of using how many charges led to convictions?

    If you want to bring statistics into this sort of heated discussion, you might want to think twice before trying to make a point.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  7. Zalbu

    Zalbu More time than skill

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    Nope, because one person got raped and the other person didn't. It literally, objectively isn't just as bad.

    Except for all the people that do, of course.

    This still doesn't factor in the number of rapes that never get reported, more than half of rapes doesn't get reported, and how likely is it that somebody wouldn't report it to the police if they're out to ruin someones lives or whatever? There are slightly bigger issues to worry about when rapists barely even get arrested, let alone convicted in the rape cases that do get reported to the police.
     
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  8. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    This statement infurates me. So it's perfectly fine to ruin someone's rest of their life in one way, but not in another way?

    Look, this discussion has gotten really off into philosophical territory and it's all been pretty tasteless, if you ask me. I have contributed to that, and I apologize for doing so.

    I propose that we simply try to be more measured and respectful in this thread.
     
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  9. Ebony

    Ebony Mr Sunshine

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    Firstly, alot of the victims of fake allegations receive physical abuse after the fact so that isn't true either.

    But if you think physical violence always trumps psychological abuse (which ironically is why rape is considered worse than a bloody beating in the first place) by all means indulge yourself.

    And please share that viewpoint with all the millions upon millions of people chained to a life in PTS-centres, doomed to never-ending self-destruction. God knows, they need a good laugh.
     
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  10. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    I'm sure things aren't this way in Norway, but here in the United States, being sent to prison = being sent to a systematized brutal rape and beating facility. To a degree, sending a man to prison on false allegations is equivalent to raping him 100x over.

    Edit: Actually, sending a man to prison even for having truly committed a crime is still sending him to a systematized brutal rape and beating facility...
     
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  11. Zalbu

    Zalbu More time than skill

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    Why would either of them be okay? If being told that getting raped is worse than not getting raped infuriates you then you probably shouldn't enter threads like this in the first place.

    Rape is both psychological and physical violence, being accused of rape is neither in a vast majority of cases and just psychological violence in the remaining cases. If you have some information that would show the opposite then I'd love to read it.

    Here's the latest study I can find, out of more than 5000 prosecutions of rate, 35 were found to be false. How many of them do you think are sitting in prison rotting away right now?

    http://www.webcitation.org/6ItPWbBj...h/perverting_course_of_justice_march_2013.pdf
     
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  12. Blytheryn

    Blytheryn Musical Adam West

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    It seems like all the social media is down. Wasn't down the other day.
     
  13. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    That study is for how many rape allegations in the UK turned into convictions for perverting the course of justice. To get to that point, the accuser would have to tamper with evidence.

    You are just being belligerent at this point, purposely misrepresenting what I said to try to piss me off even more.

    Have a nice day.
     
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  14. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician SS.org Regular

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    Even with the (very) small number of rape allegations that do end up being false - victims should get the support and respect they deserve until ti all comes out.

    Do you know what the process of pursuing rape allegations is? Do you know how hard accusers (women especially) get raked over the coals, and how EVERYONE involved tries to paint them as having "asked for it"?

    Ask any woman who has pressed charges and followed through the process. They would tell you 1000 times that it was fucking brutal. And some women would even choose not to go through the process again if they could go back, because being forced to relive the crime and getting drilled on it as though THEY were lying was torture.

    Ask one of these men who claim that "false rape claims" are so common if they would like to be taken seriously if they were raped by a man - the tone changes considerably.

    Rape is serious and must be taken seriously. Lying about it is a crime. Very few people are willing to commit a crime for the sake of a lie.

    There's a dilemma in crime/law: if your laws support the accuser more you may occasionally have an innocent person incarcerated, and if you support the accused more you may have bad people go free. It's why we have a legal process

    But choosing to believe that rape allegations are "often false" is up there with denying climate change on the scale of "I choose to believe whatever I want regardless of facts".

    Siding with/against before the case proceeds just tells people one has an agenda to push.
     
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  15. Zalbu

    Zalbu More time than skill

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    So you didn't even read the article, there were even less charges for wasting police time than for perverting the course of justice. Nice talking to you!

     
  16. Sogradde

    Sogradde SS.org Regular

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    This is true.
    This is straight up fiction, unless you can provide credible sources.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't deny that it happens but claiming to know the percantage of something that is by definition immeasurable sounds foolish at best.
     
  17. lewis

    lewis SS.org Regular

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    The same thing you gain from actually raping someone. Nothing. (other than the punishment afterwards that is)
     
  18. Zalbu

    Zalbu More time than skill

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    This puts the number of reported rapes and sexual assaults at 34% so the number of rapes is even lower than that. Just Google and take your pick, it's not exactly a secret that rape is grossly underreported.
    https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5111
     
  19. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    I wasn't referring to you. Hell, it was mostly a joke about those types being all over Twitter.
     
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  20. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    Oh, god. Not the fedora crew. :lol:
     

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